When do you become middle class?

[ForMintUser]

I was reading the “rich get richer” thread which made me think about something I have been wondering about, interested in other people’s opinions.

My parents came from working class, council house backgrounds, neither set of grandparents ever had much money, never owned a house.

Both parents left school with no qualifications, didn’t go on to further or higher education.

My father worked as a salesman, eventually got promoted to management and ended up working in senior management for a UK wide company.

I would say they were working class from birth but would probably be middle class now, jobs in management, home owners etc.

I would say I was raised middle class, there wasn’t a huge amount of money when we were children but certainly didn’t grow up in poverty, myself and siblings all went to university, have professional jobs.

I will say I recognise there is a lot of luck and timing in this (particularly in relation to house prices and the fact that my mother was able to be a SAHM because a family could live on one income then). I’m not a big believer in the idea that hard work always equals success, it does for some but not for others.

My question is, if they were born working class and are now middle class (happy to be corrected on that if people don’t agree) surely there needs to have been a point where you would say they had become middle class? So at what point do you become middle class?

is there now, or has there ever been, a social grouping construct that doesn't have some kind of hierarchy?

Serencwtch · Today 12:05

If you go to uni & get a graduate job then you can safely say you are middle class.

We don’t pay for university fees in Scotland. So what you are saying isn’t true. I

The whole point is that its not something you can easily list, learn (or buy) as an adult. Class is developed through lived childhood experiences.

To be honest i think sort of you are what you grew up.

So your parents might be working class, but if you have all the trappings of a middle class upbringing (and its not really just about money, more about values), you are probably middle class, your children are more likely to be.

You can be filthy stinking rich & be working class - many footballers are

This particular meetup wasn't in England so I dont think it fits any criteria for class :)

(as no one in Spain talks about class)

I'm on holiday in Spain. I went to the meetup in Barcelona. There are great philosophy meetups on every week in Madrid and Barcelona. Really interesting groups.

We're talking about class in the UK not the history of the world. You want to talk about tribes or indigenous nations? Go ahead. Start a new thread. But it's a non sequitur in terms of this conversation.

I’m WC leading a MC existence but I would say I’m half and half! My DCs are very much MC…
Both DP and I grew up very poor, WC parents, but through education - sports and academic scholarships - went to University and are in MC professions and are higher earners.

BUT my upbringing very much shaped me and my world view, is pretty liberal on a lot of things. I believe in widening participation for children in education, think private schools should be done away with, believe we should invest in public services for everyone rather than have high earners like us opt out for private services etc.

I recently was given an opportunity for development open to those who fit a diversity criteria and I did because of my WC background. A couple of colleagues were PROPERLY outraged. They see me as the same as them.
As UMC white, straight AND privately educated - they weren’t eligible, But the truth is - my background shaped me as much as their public school/ UMC backgrounds did them… and we don’t at heart think the same or have the same opinion about people who live/lived in council estates ( like me) or people who need or have used benefits at some point, or people who went to state school.
For me that’s the difference.

Could you elaborate on what you mean by values?

The working class folks around me all drive Range Rovers, wear expensive brands, signs loads of money on beauty treatments and holiday in Dubai. We live in confusing times.

I started working in the charity sector and realised how fortunate I was, and that I can’t be categorised in the same way as some of the people I was helping to support.

In a lighter hearted way though, my daughter has a very “posh” name - think Tamara/Camilla vibes, I have a rarish breed of pedigree dog, I wear a lot of Boden and Joules, and I weaned my daughter on quinoa casseroles. I’m currently looking at private school for secondary for her…..oh and I’m a single mum who grew up on a council estate, this has been a hard earned lifestyle and wanted to leave all that behind! When I divorced my husband I knew if I wanted to keep my lifestyle I needed to get serious at work and I have tripled my salary in 10 years so I would say I’m middle class but there’s been a lot of intentional social climbing! (Studying etiquette etc)

it is much less apparent in other countries .

From Ireland and class isn’t such a thing as it seems to be in the uk. We would have been middle class, house in good area, hobbies horse riding (although I worked for most of my lessons), brother did rugby, holiday once a year, car that didn’t break down, got clothes as needed and not always from Penneys!!! Now I just wonder how the hell we afforded to eat yoplait yoghurt and weetabix that was real weetabix 😅

it is much less apparent in other countries
I disagree.

PeachBlossom1234 · Today 13:14

I started working in the charity sector and realised how fortunate I was, and that I can’t be categorised in the same way as some of the people I was helping to support.

Thank you for doing what you do, mil had a charity agency come out to see about funding to help make her house warmer and the lady who came was not suited to her job and spent the whole time incredulous ‘that anybody can live in a place like this’ (my mil’s home that her and fil have always worked hard at to make liveable). Mil looked heartbroken and I wanted to throw the lady out

It was much simpler to understand the differences when I was a child. If you watched Blue Peter you were MC, if you preferred Magpie you were WC. If your parents watched Morcambe &Wise you were MC, if they preferred The Two Ronnies you were WC. If your friend wasn’t allowed to watch ITV they were MC (I was allowed). We were WC 😁

My kids are MC I suppose but not obviously so (I don’t think?). They went to private school but didn’t do any voluntary extra curriculars. They’ve never been skiing.

This is quite untrue. Social mobility is lower now than it has been historically. Class markers are as present now as they have ever been.

Yes tragically that the is the case.

I don't think it is a non sequitur. You said that class systems were dangerous and divisive. I was pointing out that they are a part of human evolution.

When the thought of eating tinned ravioli makes you gag.

that's two strikes against me

😂

I think America has a class system that seems quite obvious at times. I know we Brits can’t tell much from their accents but I’ve seen enough tv from the US to know that there are obvious WC, MC and upper classes. They probably just don’t talk about it as much.

Were you? That wasn't at all clear, you didn't say it. Well then why in the 21st century haven't we moved beyond systems that seek to oppress? Doesn't seem very evolutionary to me.

I was born and raised middle class, however although my dad was clever with a degree in history and English he was a bit bohemian so wasn't very good at staying in a job to climb the corporate ladder.
We ended up in social housing after living with grandparents for sometime, but still maintained a 'middle class' life to some degree. We had full bookshelves e erywhere, listened to classical music and our holidays were very cultural, I was going on city breaks with my parents from age 10 while most of my friends went on all inclusive holidays to tenerife. I got an assisted place at a private school.
I didn't do very well at school academically only getting 3 gcse's. Became rebellious and dropped out of college to party basically and worked various jobs.
I'm now in the beauty industry and have had my own salon.
I don't know what I would be classed as now!
Own our home but abroad.

All in all I would say it's not so much about the money, more the lifestyle.

Mine are currently eating crisps, guess we are working class than!😂
I grew up in an owned house which was nicely furnished. We lived in a decent area, we ate well, but couldn't afford more than caravan holidays.
As an adult I have a mortgage, dh has a good wage, but we don't have loads of expendable cash. I wouldn't say that always make a difference tbh. We eat well at home, odd holiday, but don't go for loads of meals, or have a super extravagant lifestyle. We still have to watch what we spend due to some payment plans. If we didn't have those we would be okay, and are actively working on them

I would say when you can afford to save money, and don't have any debt, you're doing very well in today's world.