When do you become middle class?

[ForMintUser]

I was reading the “rich get richer” thread which made me think about something I have been wondering about, interested in other people’s opinions.

My parents came from working class, council house backgrounds, neither set of grandparents ever had much money, never owned a house.

Both parents left school with no qualifications, didn’t go on to further or higher education.

My father worked as a salesman, eventually got promoted to management and ended up working in senior management for a UK wide company.

I would say they were working class from birth but would probably be middle class now, jobs in management, home owners etc.

I would say I was raised middle class, there wasn’t a huge amount of money when we were children but certainly didn’t grow up in poverty, myself and siblings all went to university, have professional jobs.

I will say I recognise there is a lot of luck and timing in this (particularly in relation to house prices and the fact that my mother was able to be a SAHM because a family could live on one income then). I’m not a big believer in the idea that hard work always equals success, it does for some but not for others.

My question is, if they were born working class and are now middle class (happy to be corrected on that if people don’t agree) surely there needs to have been a point where you would say they had become middle class? So at what point do you become middle class?

You don't change class. You did die in the class you were born into.

Your children can however be born into a different class to you. Depends how you raise them though. If your sat in a £1M house licking knives whilst eating dinner off your lap in front of "I'm a celeb" then they're still working class. Nothing wrong with that though.

I've always found it's only those born into WC families desperate to "better themselves" that actually care about class. If you were born MC you don't really care as your pretty secure- hence MC kids running around in rags.

But it very much depends on what the rest of your life is like- there are I am sure some middle class people who enjoy musicals and have cars on HP- but I definitely wouldn’t say these are strong indicators or being middle class. IYSWIM.

Oh dear. This is what I was referring to.

If you're pre-occupied by the class status of your interests, which class of people share your tastes, whether you're ticking the boxes of social markers, you're not middle class.

Middle class people don't care.

I swear if there was a Being Middle Class for Dummies book, some people would buy it.

As an immigrant, my outside observations are that the so-called middle class
have university degrees (may or may not be wealthy),
don’t have many TVs - back in the day would not have had satellite tv(!)
don’t have overt displays of wealth*
more likely to have spent on a house rather than cars
enjoy theatre and concerts as much a box set and sport
have dinner parties
don’t really care what class they are/what others think*

I think the difference is emulated in the Harry Enfield sketch - “I am considerably richer than you”

Pray tell me, the difference in attitudes, values and culture of the middle class and the working class?

I don't believe that you can change your own class. Your children can be a different class but you can't change your own.

Class is ingrained into you through your upbringing.

I am solidly working class, no question about it. I could win the euro millions next week (PLEASE). I won't suddenly become middle class because I have money. I don't have middle class interests, don't have any middle class friends, I couldn't even "look" middle class (I have over 50 tattoos including on my hands and fingers). I'm not well educated, didn't go to college or university and don't fancy doing so now.

Same as Prince William would still be upper class even if he decided to jack it all in tomorrow and go to work at Tesco.

This puts me in 'Established middle class'.

I don't agree. My background certainly isn't MC...no Uni, grew up in a Council house with parents on benefits etc.

However, our annual income and the fact I like the Theatre and socialise with Accountants seems to have thrown it off 😂

I think a pp hit the nail on the head for me and dh though...'working class, living a middle class lifestyle, raising very middle class children'.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/NRSsocialgrade
This is the standard way to measure social class.
But I like the idea that it's about enjoying the archers.

🤣🤣

I don't think that's particularly accurate, there's far more to it than just what job you do.

My question is, if they were born working class and are now middle class (happy to be corrected on that if people don’t agree) surely there needs to have been a point where you would say they had become middle class? So at what point do you become middle class?

I think you don't ever become middle class, you are born into it - so I'd say you're middle class but your parents not.

I'm 70 and working class - but for the past nearly 50 years have lived a MC lifestyle due to marriage and income, so my sons grew up with all the advantages of private education and then university, so they've always been MC.

Class is something that runs deep in the UK.

😂

ballet/theatre (not musicals)

So what would you call Andrew Lloyd Webber or Tim Rice? Working class because they like musicals?

Honestly, who really cares? Working class and middle class are extremely fluid -land there are no set parameters. The only thing you can never become, is Upper Class, because that is attributed to you by birth.

Live your life and enjoy what you enjoy. There are no barriers to careers or hobbies.

• You don't have tattoos up to your neck.
• You own your cars outright
• You have a 2nd property
• Your kids go to grammar school/uni (so did you)
• You have a mortgage but manageable
• You have dinner on a dining table
• You holiday abroad at least once a year
• You read
• Someone plays an instrument in the house
• You are analytical about the Beatles back catalogue
• You go to museums, galleries because you actually want to
• You have at least one item from Barbour, Berghaus etc
• You have a study space at home
• You eat out at least once a month

Never. People may assume I'm middle class, we are doing okay financially and I enjoy things that I thought were only "for rich people" when I was growing up. But honestly I feel like an intruder. Deep down I will always be that kid from a council estate.

If you go to uni & get a graduate job then you can safely say you are middle class.

When you're born.

You can't buy your way into a higher class.

I would say I'm middle class if you apply a set of criteria Kids privately educated. University educated, children and I, own home, anticipate inheritance, but I don't ever think about it. Class is irrelevant what's relevant is whether people are decent and kind, compassionate and caring. Those qualities cut through.

Nonsense about ballet/opera rather than musicals. I love the former and have also been to see Moulin Rouge twice. Loved it and would go again. DH went to Eton and he loved it too.

I wish this whole country would just drop the whole idea of class - it's gross.

Get out of the 1800s.

There is no class.

Class is never mentioned in other countries. I only ever hear it being talked about England.

It's so old fashioned!

How could there be a "class" of people. It's ridiculous.

I agree.

It's a disgusting abusive term.

It's embarrassing.

Anyone can go to Uni with student loans

Too simplistic OP. What really matters is if you are Lower Middle Class, Middle Middle, or Upper Middle Class 😂

And yes, it's rarely to do with bags of money, but how you present yourself, how you treat others, and your own upbringing and education.

Totally with you on all of that.

The only place people care is here,on mumsnet.