to think a lot of this “boy mum” stuff is a load of sexist nonsense?

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I’m always hearing people (on social media and in real life) talking about being “boy mums”, mostly saying how hard it is to raise boys as they are always being dangerous, loud, disruptive and disobedient, the tacit implication being that girls are quiet, do as they are told and that raising them is easy.

I have two girls, and I am not exaggerating when I say every single posts, video or anecdote of the supposedly “dangerous, madcap antics” “boy mums” have to deal with is something my girls do regularly. I’m thinking mostly of toddler/young children stuff. For example, I saw a video the other day of a child around 18 months trying to climb over a cardboard box and then tumbling off it (soft landing, no danger whatsoever), with a caption saying something like “see, this is what boy mums have to put up with!” and I’m just like… isn’t that just totally normal toddler behaviour for both sexes?? When my girls were that age I felt like they spent every minute of every day trying to climb up everything. My cousin posted one last week of her 3 year old splashing in some mud with a comment about being a “boy mum” and it was just such a massive eye-roll. As if little girl toddlers don’t love splashing around in mud every chance they get, too!

It's mostly just eye-rolling stuff, but it does actually sometimes annoy me, because I sometimes feel like people are assuming parents of girls have some sort of blessed easy life where we’re just sitting around getting our hair brushed, or relaxing while our perfect little angels play dollies, while “boy mums” are actually doing hard work, which is so far from the truth that it annoys me. My girls both come home from school/nursery covered in mud every day, they act like they are allergic to doing as they’re told, they climb, they jump, they playfight – and as far as I’ve seen of other girls, they are totally normal in this regard.

My in-laws especially are big on the whole “boys are loud and dangerous and misbehave and girls are quiet and obedient” thing (to the point where it comes up in conversation every time we see them🙄), and the weird thing is, our nephews on that side actually happen to be naturally very placid, introverted and timid, while it’s our girls who are climbing the walls, being rambunctious and rarely do as they’re told without a struggle. And yet still they go on about how boys are so “naughty” and hard work, and "girls don't misbehave" (verbatim quote from MIL!!!!) which I just find a bit insulting really, because if what they are saying is true, then it stands to reason that either we must have an easy life, or we must just be rubbish parents, because girls are supposed to be “naturally obedient” and yet we still have to put loads of work into getting ours to behave, so how hopeless must we be?

So, what’s the consensus? Is it true that boys are naturally naughtier and harder work, or is it sexist nonsense?

(For the sake of the poll, let’s stick to thinking about little children rather than older kids/teens.)

@Itssodark

Secondly let's say there's a typical boy trait of playing sword fighting with sticks - I see boys doing this more than girls. I have a problem with people seeing this as 'naughty' or offering sympathy to me as a boy mum. I also don't think your daughter is better behaved than my son because she happens to like sitting and colouring in. And I also worry we don't expect or allow girls to just roll around in the mud etc..

Very well said. It makes me cringe when I hear people say, of a young child or toddler who is sitting still and quiet in a situation that doesn’t necessarily require being still and quiet “oh isn’t s/he good!” To me it’s not “good”, it’s just neutral, and if they wanted to run around and play loudly (at the park, in their own home etc.) then that would be fine too. It’s kids being kids and it’s good for their development.

Ds 10 has been easy to raise
.No naughtiness or crap behaviour

Yes of course they are which is why I am a bit surprised you highlighted that you see this ONLY from "boy mums" apparently - dont you see it the other way around too?

'Boy mom's is a whole trend though on SM in a way that girl mom isn't. It tends to be 'girl dad' on SM which is equally depressing sexist trope of men having their nails painted etc.

The exact problem with comparing results or brains in this scenario is that adult results will be affected both by their environment and by sex hormones associated with puberty in a way that young children's are not- they will generally be solely affected by their environment.

At toddler age boys and girls essentially have very similar brains, and there are only very slight differences. These tend to become larger gaps due to societal influence. Parents talk to boys less and are more physical with them than girls. As a PP said these subtle differences in parenting from an early age are then accelerated when they start pre school.

Any parent who has children and they are all boy are referred to as a 'boy mum' and not for the reasons you've said. You've just made an assumption that it means that.

But since you have now made that assumption and only have girls, thn you've no idea. But parents out there who have both usually say there's definitely a difference and tht boys are alot more mischievous and get up to wilder and more dangerous nonsense.

I can only relate my experience 🤷🏼‍♀️ I spent many hours in A&E with my boys getting various wounds stitched, bones set etc, never with my girl. Etc. Etc.

Now I watch my grandchildren playing - the boys are wrestling each other at every opportunity, girls are chatting, dancing about, and laughing at the boys 🤣

I know, but I think it's just worth pointing out how much unconscious stuff goes on, even when we think we subscribe to more progressive views.

How about we just don't talk about 'typical' girls being quiet and obedient, at all?

How about we just don't accept/ mention that view?

I would instead say I have 5 children, all happen to be girls, some of them are boisterous and some are quieter, and they're all perfectly normal kids!

Nothing typical/ atypical about it, everyone's just different.

Let's be surprised and act surprised when people talk about 'typical' girls or boys being a certain way.

I just think there's so much in the language we use, even in our own heads, and progress happens when we consciously aim to move that forwards.

And as much of that will be due to social conditioning as what they have between their legs.

1. My experience is quite different - it was my DD who repeatedly ended up in A&E due to her physically adventurous, risk taking behaviour. My DS never. All children are different and have different personalities.
2. So many of the differences people claim to see are down to socialisation. For example, research shows that adults talk to girl babies more and play more physical games with boy babies IF THEY KNOW THEIR SEX. Girls are often dressed in different clothes and then discouraged from playing rough, dirty games that might spoil their clothes. My DD was given dolls, soft toys and pretty, sparkly things as presents by relatives. My DS was given cars, bricks, construction toys, pirate outfits and toy swords. They didn't choose these things - adults did, and are then surprised if little boys play with swords and little girls don't.

I think you may be misinterpreting the sexism OP. These mums are not sincerely telling you you have the better deal with your 'quiet girls'. It's not about you or 'girl mums' at all. It's a stealth boast. What they're saying is look at my perfect example of masculinity. See how he can fight! See how strong and active he is! Look how he isn't afraid to get his hands dirty! What a little man I have here. Your girls are merely framed as a comparator to highlight their sons masculine traits. They're not really moaning (though the chance to come across as extra hard working is a bonus) they're showing off.

I think there is a difference between how boys and girls typically behave, but I think it’s probably largely (if not entirely) learned. It’s self-fulfilling. A lot of adults treat boys/ girls differently. They expect and encourage different behaviours and qualities, and that’s how children learn to behave socially. My daughter went through a phase of hitting/ being too physical in preschool. The teacher used to hold me up nearly every day to talk at length about it. But I noticed a few of the boys behaved more or less the same and yet that was considered normal. When they would play fight or chase each other with sticks or whatever, nobody batted an eyelid. When dd did the same, it was a problem and I was asked where on earth she was picking up this behaviour (she was copying the boys).
I think people do this a lot. They let boys away with behaviour that they strongly discourage in girls. Where I live the schools are mainly all girls/ boys. The difference is very noticeable when you walk past at lunchtime and the boys are in the yard, it's very noisy, they are much rougher with each other, most of them are running around or playing football. The girls are a lot quieter. They are playing hopscotch or skipping or sitting around chatting in little groups. Some of them are running around but far fewer. If it’s anything like it was in my day, that’s likely because the girls wouldn’t be allowed to behave boisterously like the boys. It was always much stricter.
I know some parents who have boys and allow them to behave very badly then say things like That’s what it’s like having boys. It’s often just a cop out because they don’t want to tackle the behaviour.But I also think boys are more likely to pick up these behaviours like aggressiveness than girls so they can be harder to manage. I think you can really see the marked difference around here because the schools aren’t mixed and people are generally quite old fashioned about gender stereotypes.

Agree with this- it’s socialisation. As pps who work with kids have pointed out, they do play differently.

i always said I’d never differentiate, but I have to accept there will be behaviours I adopt unconsciously which makes my parenting slightly different. ( the being more physical with DS and encouraging rough and tumble etc).

I also think that kids aren’t brought up in a bubble and I’m amazed at the cues they absorb from the world around them…my Dd loved all things pink and sparkly and looking pretty, but she was possibly mimicking the way slightly older girls were behaving. My Ds refused to go to ballet classes when he saw it was full of girls- he was 3 and loved dancing, but he seemed to associate it with girls and therefore not him, so stopped. If it had been full of boys, his perception would’ve been different.

Everyone in society focuses on how women look which maybe has an effect. and when girls play solely with girls and boys with boys, they’ll
adjust/moderate their behaviour to fit in with group- so again these learned behaviours become encouraged and consolidated

This!!

I have 2 boys and have struggled with these comments. The “boy mum” thing actually annoys me even more.

Meant to quote this

I'm a mum to both and my boy is MUCH more physical than my daughter. She prefers role play based play whereas my son always wants to be kicking or fighting something and is usually hanging off a sofa arm somewhere.

My daughter gets herself dressed, my son is 8 and still wants help constantly.

For my kids, there's a notable difference, albeit they of course share some hobbies and characteristics.

Again, that's down to the individual children. I have girls and one of them was at A&E constantly because she was always flinging herself around, my nephew has never been to A&E for an injury

I'm a teacher and I think boys in school are more poorly-behaved, but I'm convinced this is nurture rather than nature (turning a blind eye because boys will be boys etc). I have three children of my own, and my girl was the most rambunctious of the three as a toddler, but all have been well-behaved as older children, because I put in the hours to manage their behaviour. Both boys are ND too, so it has not been easy.

My sister chased me out of the back door & round the garden with a knife ( just a butter knife) when we were teenagers!

“IF THEY KNOW THEIR SEX.”

what?? 🤔

@AgileGreenSeal in the experiment, they’d tell people that girls were boys and vice versa to see how it affected their interactions. It did - hugely. Parents were rougher with boys and delicate with girls and gave them different toys to play with.

Worth a google!

IMO 'boy mums' are often on MN helplessly wringing their hands about their out of control boys. That's because they smile indulgently repeating their 'boys will be boys' mantra while Crispin yet again stabs the dog with a fork.

It's well known that from babies boys and girls are socialised differently.

That's not what it is for me. I find it hard to explain but I like being a 'boy mum' because it feels like I am proud of having boys when people say they're sorry I've got two boys, when will we try for a girl, etc etc. as well as the never ending 'gender disappointment' threads on here which is almost always disappointment about having a boy.

However I don't believe in the stereotypes of boys are rougher and girls are delicate etc, and I also don't permit bad behaviour from my boys on the basis that they are boys (or any other reason!)

I do though think there are differences in behaviour between the sexes in childhood, but on a statistical level rather than individual.

The whole “boy mum” life thing was just a hashtag to fight back against the whole oh no when will you have another. Shame you didn’t get a girl. Oh not another boy.

Agree with this from @Wellingtonspie - I thought the boy mum stuff was a push back against all the disappointment around having boys.

I've really noticed since becoming a mum that men don't make being a dad their main identity at all, they're basically the same but with a kid. Whereas a lot of women make "mama bear" their entire personality.

I've been to a few mum and baby groups and they're so fucking boring I can't take it anymore, not a hobby or personal interest in sight just endless baby baby blah blah blah like they're not even real people anymore and they all call themselves mama bears and go on about how their entire existence is about nothing but their "bubba". God it's dull.

Needless to say I don't go to any of those things anymore and just carry on with my old friends/hobbies like before, just with a baby in tow. For the first couple of months I was consumed by motherhood and my baby and it was wonderful but now she's 4 months old I'm bored of that and getting back to real life. I love her to death but I'm still a person! I can't waste years of my life being a mama bear and nothing else! Men don't do it so why do women?