Is sister BU to take nephew and live in a van?

[ThanksItsUncleFranks]

My sister, A, is in her late 30s. Her son, B, is 3. B's dad has no involvement in their lives and lives abroad. A and B have had housing insecurity for a long time - short term let followed by staying with our parents followed by flatshare followed by being back with our parents. A doesn't have a job as such but makes a wee bit of money selling crafts online and at markets. She gets PIP for her mental health issues and UC for B.

That's the background. So the current situation is that A and B are sharing a (small) spare bedroom at our parents' house. B attends the local preschool and while A doesn't get on particularly well with our parents, they tolerate each other and everyone stays calm. B has access here to toys, clean clothes, bathroom facilities etc.

But now A has announced that she's bought an old semi-converted van from someone on Facebook and her and B are going to live 'on the road'. She says there are FB groups where people offer places to park in return for work and that she's going to do this, moving from place to place. I am concerned that B will lose his access to preschool plus the warmth and convenience of living in a home. A says I am being small-minded and that she will homeschool B, that he will 'learn more on the road than at any school', and that the van has a woodburner so they will be warm and able to cook hot meals.

Essentially A thinks I should butt out. My parents think they will try it and swiftly return to their house so we should just let A 'get it out of her system'. But I don't just think A is being naive, and making life harder for B, I think she will worsen her own MH issues (anxiety, depression, bipolar) by sleeping in an old van every night with only B for company. Historically she has always become iller when away from other family adults. I'm older than her and still feel protective of her even though she is, I accept, very much a grown up.

AIBU to keep voicing my concerns in the hope of dissuading A from this path? Or should I butt out as my parents suggest.

It's a dream life picturing no responsibilities where her DC could pick up skills and run free. But winter is brutal and it would need significant coping and practical skills. Everything is much harder when you are not in a home even if you are mentally well.

I follow a couple who travel full time in a bus and they recognise how lucky they are that one can earn a living (from blogging and brand deals) whilst the other is very practical and can usually keep it on the road. But there are still harsh practicalities with not having running water, emptying the toilet and running out of stuff.

Farms are huge businesses and even if one took her on to crop pick they wouldn't let the little one run around.

I couldn't imagine subjecting myself and my child to this if I had a choice.

I do hope the weekend puts her off and her mental health stabilises.

I came here to say this.

Is she in a hypo/manic episode? Her ideas/behaviour seems v impulsive. I too would be worried she’s becoming unwell.

Not only that, to stay well with bipolar disorder (also speaking as someone who has it) is a stable environment, food, sleep patterns, daily living etc. She won’t get that on the road.

Having said that, she’s an adult and will do what she’s doing, I doubt much you’ll be able to dissuade her. I predict she’ll be back soon enough.

I appreciate your frustration and send you a big hug. Caring for people who are unwell is tough. 💐

This isn’t the case. It’s a payment that allows the person in receipt to be able to live independently.
Example, if they are unable to cook meals, the extra money enables them to pay for meal delivery or convenience foods.

It sounds like the kind of crazy, ill-thought out plan that someone with MH problems makes, all airy fairy and no thought to the actual reality. It is doubly crazy with the UK winter is fast approaching. A converted van when it's zero degrees outside? When there could be snow on the ground? It's madness to contemplate that with a 3-year-old in tow, when he has nowhere safe to go while she's working, nowhere to get warm and learn and play with other DC.

I would contact SS, if it were me. Someone needs to be responsible and look out for your nephew and unfortunately that person isn't his DM. She is mentally unwell, so it's not her fault, but you and your DPs need to step up and do the right thing.

With your sister's background,and disabilities,I'm not convinced social services would be happy with this for her son .
Maybe she would be better leaving her son with your parents,where he keeps his stability
I totally agree with you op
It's a dreadful idea .
As a temporary idea where two parents take the children on an adventure,with a home to come back to ..ok
But as a single woman,I just don't think it's safe ,or practical
But it's her life ,I don't know what you can do
I suppose you could have a chat to social services,if you are very worried

Contact Social Services (anonymously, if need be). This is no sort of life for a child.

I do think you need to be completely behind her (that way you can at least have some control over what she does concerning 3 year old) I do think that a trips out on her own for a few days here and there with friends and family tracking on her mobile, phone chargers and her supply of meds and alarms set for when she needs to take them with the thought process that she thinks about what she actually needs to change in the van or any other stuff she needs to make it a lot more comfortable for when she sets off for real.
Even if where she goes is just a few miles up the road to practice to start with and then go further and further until she has the confidence that the van will make it.
Then you know that in 3 days or 5days time she will be returning

3 year olds life won’t be disturbed and who knows she might find the reality is harsher than she thinks. Or she might find that she does actually enjoy the lifestyle and if she can’t get much work during the winter it might at least help her realise that during the winter months she returns to her parents house.

If it’s so cramped in the house could she park up outside your parents place and use the van as an independent living area for herself. 3 year old could have the choice of his own bedroom indoors or could stay the night in the van.
(Although before anyone spends anytime in the van I would get a gas expert to take a look at the cooking and heating areas and if they are safe to have on if someone is sleeping in there. You hear terrible stories of carbon monoxide poisoning)

I have quite a few friends who have done this for a period of time and loved it. Most return to a more conventional life after a while but some are still living this way. There is much more of a community on the road than people who have never lived like this would imagine and lots of places you can stay for quite a while. Most have a regular route that they stick to a lot of the time so long term friends and support networks are also possible.

Whether this is going to work for your sister is difficult to say without knowing her but I doubt you can talk her out of it. Leave the door wide open and let her know there will be not judgement or I told you so if she does come running back.

This sounds like a recipe for disaster to me. She has a log burner but where will she get the wood for it? Does she think she'll go round just picking up a few sticks here and there and that will work? Does she have experience of a log burner? Understand that wood won't stay in all night? Understand that she needs dry wood that had been seasoned for 6 to 12 months to burn on it. If she thinks she can just collect some sticks to burn and that will be fine she's got a shock coming - she'll be smoked out and go through what she's collected in no time. She needs to buy logs but where is she going to store them in a van? She'll need a good number of logs a day to keep the fire in and to get up in the night to see to it if she wants it to stay in.

Otherwise her child is going to wake up every morning in a damp, cold van.

I think the biggest problem here is her MH. It has the potential to put her in very vulnerable situations were her rational thinking could be impaired 😕 but, I think if you ring social services you need to think long and hard about why you're ringing them, because I'm not sure there'll be a happy ending.

I’d contact social services as this sounds unsafe for the child

Tell her she can go - but the child stays with the grandparents. That way she can live out her hippie fantasy to her hearts content until she realises what a stupid idea it was and return home.

Tead and re-read this.

Your sister sounds like she is in a manic phase with grandiose and unrealistic thinking. Your nephew is at risk. Try as hard as you can to get her to at least leave him with your parents. Your nephew is not safe with her. He is not a toy. He needs security.

Tell her she can go but not take her child? Not sure they can decide that. Also hippie phase? Madness

This sounds like a truly awful idea for a mentally ill, vulnerable woman with a small child. Many lost souls do seem to be drawn to the idea of van or off-grid life, presumably as a fantasy to try and escape their own lives.

The reality is that you need to be extremely mentally stable and both mentally and practically self-sufficient. I've included a youtube link of the kind of person I mean who is well-suited.

Winter van life is also brutal. We have a camper conversion but don't live in it full time although we have done longer trips. In summer, especially in eg Spain, it's truly living the dream. Space, sunshine and scenery. In winter in the UK and northern Europe is very different and any longer than a few days during a dry spell gets grim - and that's in a large camper with excellent heating, hot water, shower, toilet and cooking facilities, god knows what it'd be like in some half done conversion.
And all of that is without factoring in the wellbeing of a child.

Think the first comment pegged it. Some people can’t be told no and it will end with them rejecting the help. She wont like the life as it wont be roses and sunshine an she will have to work and provide an education that the gov will monitor. Don’t talk down about it but no harm in useful questions to make her look deeper

Has she ever tried to use a woodstove before? Make sure she has a carbon monoxide alarm and tests it before going anywhere.

There is a huge community of people doing this homeschooling van life but they usually have a decent income that comes from a WFH type of job that doesn't need set hours - that way they can work around the homeschooling hours and childcare hours. They also put a lot of energy and work into the schooling part and giving their children cultural experiences. Most are couples, I have seen a few single mothers do it but usually with slightly older children.

If you can get her to put a decent plan down on paper - including a budget maybe that will slow her enthusiasm?

She's in her late 30s and her parents have no legal rights re decisions for her child.

I think it's a crazy idea that is unwise and quite likely to be part of a manic phase. So I don't think it's a sensible thing she's considering doing.

But OP and her parents can't just 'tell her she can go' but demand she leaves her child behind...

Possibly campsites??

A lot of cheap camp sites shut during the winter, and I really can't imagine the OP's DSis being the kind of person happy to shell out £30+ for a night in a site with decent showers etc.

See how social services feel about this set up. She has mental health issues and is up and down with a 3 year old. Im surprised shes not able to secure a council house?

What are her mental health issues like at their worst? When was her last manic episode and has she ever been hospitalised?

Both the home ed and van life communities are pretty supportive and there’s waaaay more going on in both of them that anyone who is outside them would believe. It’s hard to comprehend if it’s totally alien to you. Yes she may be a little idealistic but that world attracts people who are so she’ll potentially find her tribe. I’m sure it won’t all be plain sailing and she’ll find out soon enough whether it’s actually for her or not. There are plenty of people doing exactly what she proposes who are perfectly functional and happy and give their kids are great childhood. It certainly doesn’t mean isolation for the kids.

Could you offer to have them?
Even though everyone is keeping things civil, there's probably underlying tension living at your parents'.

There was a wife swap episode years ago where a wife swapped with a wife whose family lived in a van. The parents were religious and lived off of bin diving from supermarkets. The child involved was 12 or 13 and was very embarrassed, he didn't really have a home to have friends over and asked his parents to always drop him off to school down the end of the road so his friends didnt see their camper.

I think for people without kids "van life" is pretty cool and gives you a lot of freedom.

With a three year old though and with the cold few months we have I personally think it will be a nightmare. Unless they have the money for an RV like they have in "Meet the Fockers"