Is sister BU to take nephew and live in a van?

[ThanksItsUncleFranks]

My sister, A, is in her late 30s. Her son, B, is 3. B's dad has no involvement in their lives and lives abroad. A and B have had housing insecurity for a long time - short term let followed by staying with our parents followed by flatshare followed by being back with our parents. A doesn't have a job as such but makes a wee bit of money selling crafts online and at markets. She gets PIP for her mental health issues and UC for B.

That's the background. So the current situation is that A and B are sharing a (small) spare bedroom at our parents' house. B attends the local preschool and while A doesn't get on particularly well with our parents, they tolerate each other and everyone stays calm. B has access here to toys, clean clothes, bathroom facilities etc.

But now A has announced that she's bought an old semi-converted van from someone on Facebook and her and B are going to live 'on the road'. She says there are FB groups where people offer places to park in return for work and that she's going to do this, moving from place to place. I am concerned that B will lose his access to preschool plus the warmth and convenience of living in a home. A says I am being small-minded and that she will homeschool B, that he will 'learn more on the road than at any school', and that the van has a woodburner so they will be warm and able to cook hot meals.

Essentially A thinks I should butt out. My parents think they will try it and swiftly return to their house so we should just let A 'get it out of her system'. But I don't just think A is being naive, and making life harder for B, I think she will worsen her own MH issues (anxiety, depression, bipolar) by sleeping in an old van every night with only B for company. Historically she has always become iller when away from other family adults. I'm older than her and still feel protective of her even though she is, I accept, very much a grown up.

AIBU to keep voicing my concerns in the hope of dissuading A from this path? Or should I butt out as my parents suggest.

Living in a van is a very on-trend thing to do at the moment - there loads of people on YouTube doing it, listing weekly reports, making it sound easy and glamorous etc.

Has she thought about if the can breaks down? Washing clothes? Toilet arrangements?

Also, do her parents give her support at the moment? Look after her child etc?

Weekend trips could be a good solution.

I agree with pps that it may backfire if you are critical or try to dissuade. Stay close to her. Ask open questions. Buy them useful and practical gifts such as portable solar chargers. Be there to keep an eye on things and be a source of support if things go wrong. This won’t work if she senses it’s from an “I told you so” perspective so speak
to her about the benefits of this new life so she knows you are on side with her goals in life. If you are close then you’ll be able to report to social services to if you do see anything concerning.

yes exactly this (I work in a community mental health teams) — does she have a keyworker at the mental health team? If so encourage her chat her plans through to her keyworker to make sure she can access the support she needs wherever she is. They will also be able to assess her mental health, and any safeguarding issues. That way you aren’t the ‘unreasonable’ one plus she gets a plan for best chance at staying well for her and her child.

Had another thought- many mental health teams won’t continue their care for patients (and GPs the medication so essential to Bipolar stability) if they are outside their geographical boundary.

I would say you are correct but telling her what to do will make no difference. When she comes back please try and support her for your nephews sake rather than told you so. It's draining ssupporting others with mental health issues ❤️

I hope she gets someone qualified to check the wood burner set up. A friends daughter was identified by her teeth after a wood burner van fire. There is also the risk from carbon monoxide. Cobbled together van conversion set ups are notorious in that respect too.

Also, it is fiendishly difficult to get insurance for a van with a log burner. A lot of people just ignore that and hope for the best.

What is she going to do with B whilst at work??

While a life on the road is possible as a PP has said, you need money and a home for the winter. Converted vans bought off Facebook will need constant maintenance and upkeep. Is she mechanically minded?
Uk Winters in a van are no place for an inexperienced mother, it will be cold, wet, and damp. Has she thought of where she will do her washing?
I worked the festivals one summer and there's quite a company of people who live in their vans touring the summer festivals, most of them had issues keeping their vans roadworthy. I spoke to one lady who was particularly vocal about how great vanlife was, told me she only lived in her van during the summer. She said she 'rented a room in a house' during the winter. I said that was a great arrangement and it was lucky she got accommodation during the winter months only. I enquired if it was with friends? No it was with her Mum.
I would see how this plays out, she's bought the van, I suspect she will be back at your parents before long.

I was aghast at this idea when I read about someone else doing it and I joined a few U.K. groups such as Vanife - UK and was amazed at how resourceful and supportive the community is.

It's better for her to try it before the child is in school and she will give up if the winter is too harsh or the van has expensive me handicap problems.

What you should do is press the importance of socialising for the child especially with children his own age.

But I say let her go for it, she has the fallback of hour parents if it goes tits up.

I'd refer her to SS.

You can tell who knows nothing about really very serious MH issues on this thread. If the posters sister has an episode of mania she may indulge in really incredibly dangerous situations. It doesn’t mean the sister is selfish or mean she will just sometimes lack capacity to assess situations or will actually seek out risky behaviours. I’m surprised my sister is alive, the stuff she has been subjected to because of her bi polar is truly dreadful. She becomes hyper sexual and the men who will happily have sex with a woman who is clearly severely mentally ill it’s actually heartbreaking. She is honestly the nicest and sweetest person of the five of us sisters but has suffered immeasurably because of her illness and we have in turn have had lives of stress because of worrying about her.

It’s good you have persuaded her to do just a weekend. You do need to report to SS is she plans long term living though as hard as that is. Disloyalty can keep them safer.

this. Don't get me wrong it's a terrible idea for all the reasons outlined above, but if she's going to do it the best time probably is now before her DC have to start full time schooling. It's probably not the best setting for them but lots of children don't start school until 5, and in other countries even later, so better for her to try it now (and almost inevitably realise it is not going to work). Otherwise unless you actually get her to sell the van it's always going to be a threat she pulls out whenever she has an argument with her parents.

Perhaps your parents are 'letting' (not that they can stop her) her go because, to be fair to them, they probably want a break. The spare bedroom situation doesn't sound like a long term solution either. Are they on the list for council housing?

So what sort of jobs did those van people have that allowed them to have that lifestyle?

It's not the wood burner that will keep her warm, it is the insulation.

Some people do live permanently in vans so it can be done.

Whether A can do it is another matter.

A weekend is a good idea.

Actually a van that she uses at weekends might actually be good for both of them. Just hope the first weekend is cold and damp.

I don’t think you are going to dissuade her and to a certain extent I don’t think you should try. I think the whole family should be behind this

I think you as a family need to look at the van she has bought and persuade her to put off starting off on her trip till March when the whether is better and in the meantime she (with the help of her family) make the van as best it can be inside. Not just pretty curtaining and facilities but making sure the heating and cooking systems aren’t going to leak carbon monoxide into the van as they breathe. That the engine and mechanics of the van are good and it isn’t going to break down every 5 minutes .

I would also encourage her to do some work to help pay for the vans issues and save a little just incase money if they end up broken down or without work. (Maybe persuade her to take out van breakdown cover for Europe)

Maybe as the van gets more livable and mechanically sound she tries a few days or a week here and there in December/January /February to practice on her own.

I would also encourage her to not just stay in the UK but roam around Europe until the weather gets bad and she returns home for the winter months and then she is off again

At least your nephew will have some exposure to different languages and with some home schooling he could end up coming back with several languages under his belt

Has she been diagnosed with ADHD as this also sounds like something I would do.

Those who are saying refer to social services - very unlikely to be picked up at this stage. Speaking to her mental health professionals would make more sense, esp if they felt this was related to a deterioration in her MH and could refer to SS on that basis.

Otherwise, it's a lifestyle decision. Probably unwise, quite likely to result in neglect, but not certain enough or severe enough for it to be something SS could try and prevent on a safeguarding basis.

There were two types of people in my experience - those who had money behind them, semi retired, who had lovely motor homes and houses they rented out in the summer.
There were also those with much older, less reliable vans, did temporary work in the winter months in low paid work, more of a new age traveller type.

I think you are right. But I think your parents are right too! Getting her to test it out with some weekends away first is a good step. And starting this at this time of year seems like madness! Maybe you could persuade her to spend the winter fully insulating and kitting out her van ready for adventuring in the spring? I still don't think she would last very long, but you could maybe persuade her that is a better plan.

For eight years, I lived off-grid on a purpose-built residential canal boat, without children, working as a supply teacher occasionally.
It was an inexpensive lifestyle, but it required a lot of careful planning and management.
I had to maintain a stock of dry fuel for heating and cooking, locate water points to fill up the tank, run the engine to heat water and keep the batteries charged, find laundromats, handle a chemical toilet, make regular trips to an Elsan point to empty the waste cassette, and arrange for postal drops.

Every aspect of daily living had to be managed — things typically taken for granted in a conventional home. During winter, I stayed in place, but I enjoyed wonderful canal holidays every summer, cruising across England. There’s a great sense of camaraderie among canal boaters, so you always have a support network wherever you go.

In the end, it's a very affordable, doable, and enjoyable lifestyle, though it takes commitment and effort. I can’t imagine doing all this in a van with a child!

Can’t comment on the OP’s sister’s ability to manage it but some posters here are very poorly informed both about PIP and about home education.

Using a relative’s address as a ‘care of’ address for a benefit claim is not benefit fraud. It’s perfectly allowable.

@MinnieCauldwell

”So what sort of jobs did those van people have that allowed them to have that lifestyle?”

Some do online web design, consultancy, etc. Many try and produce daily or weekly blogs and try and generate income from YouTube followings. Some are successful (or very successful in the case of La Vagabond -sailing family). However, some we’ve been following have given up after a couple of years.

The problem with the PIP is that she’s been awarded it on the basis that she needs prompting with some pretty basic activities. If in fact she can live independently without support and can do so competently, then she wouldn’t be entitled. If she’s still entitled, that’s only because she has significant needs that will be unmet in her new plan.

This was mine and my husband's dream. For us to be able to travel where ever we wanted full time. I can do my job from anywhere that has internet. However, our son is disabled and it took us a lot of time to get him into an appropriate special school so in the end we decided against it. However, if our son wasn't disabled we definitely would have done it.
We are currently in the process of converting a van that we can use for shorter trips rather than full time.
I would just let your sister do it, especially since she has already bought the van.
It won't take her long to work out whether or not she can handle living in the van and working with her son.
I am sure your parent's will let her move back in if it doesn't work out.

There is absolutely no way a person with active major mental illness could manage this level of complexity. When well & stable sure, but if she is receiving benefits as she's incapable of work then she is highly unlikely to capable of this level of organisation, never mind the added responsibility of looking after a young child.

While I agree this sounds like a really bad idea, receiving PIP does not mean someone is incapable of work - in fact, many people use it so they can stay in work.

https://www.gov.uk/pip

It sounds like she is receiving PIP and UC. There is an extra element to UC if she has been assessed as unfit for work but it’s not clear if she is getting it.

Similarly, the people who think it means she needs care may perhaps be confusing it with attendance allowance? There is absolutely no requirement to use PIP on assistance from another person. Someone I know uses it for taxis because she can’t manage public transport and her disability means she can’t drive, for example.