Is sister BU to take nephew and live in a van?

[ThanksItsUncleFranks]

My sister, A, is in her late 30s. Her son, B, is 3. B's dad has no involvement in their lives and lives abroad. A and B have had housing insecurity for a long time - short term let followed by staying with our parents followed by flatshare followed by being back with our parents. A doesn't have a job as such but makes a wee bit of money selling crafts online and at markets. She gets PIP for her mental health issues and UC for B.

That's the background. So the current situation is that A and B are sharing a (small) spare bedroom at our parents' house. B attends the local preschool and while A doesn't get on particularly well with our parents, they tolerate each other and everyone stays calm. B has access here to toys, clean clothes, bathroom facilities etc.

But now A has announced that she's bought an old semi-converted van from someone on Facebook and her and B are going to live 'on the road'. She says there are FB groups where people offer places to park in return for work and that she's going to do this, moving from place to place. I am concerned that B will lose his access to preschool plus the warmth and convenience of living in a home. A says I am being small-minded and that she will homeschool B, that he will 'learn more on the road than at any school', and that the van has a woodburner so they will be warm and able to cook hot meals.

Essentially A thinks I should butt out. My parents think they will try it and swiftly return to their house so we should just let A 'get it out of her system'. But I don't just think A is being naive, and making life harder for B, I think she will worsen her own MH issues (anxiety, depression, bipolar) by sleeping in an old van every night with only B for company. Historically she has always become iller when away from other family adults. I'm older than her and still feel protective of her even though she is, I accept, very much a grown up.

AIBU to keep voicing my concerns in the hope of dissuading A from this path? Or should I butt out as my parents suggest.

People do offer free park ups in return for work. It’s often on farms and rural projects so lots of tree felling, building walls stuff, some looking after animals and planting and harvesting veg. How can a 3 year old be safe if you’re doing a lot of this work. Plus if she became unwell with mania and you haven’t said what type of bipolar she has then it could all just be very unsafe. Plus the semi converted van, is that safe?

I am looking at buying a camper-van and inadvertently found the park ups for free in return for work. They really value people with building, carpentry skills or that can operate stuff like diggers. Quite a few people post offering or asking for places tend to be lots of singles or couples who can offer something.

I think your parents are right and she may be at the start of an episode as it’s impulsive. But as there is a toddler involved could I stand by and not inform social services, I don’t think I could live with the worry for my nephew. When she is well then she can make informed choices but when unwell she will lack capacity. I have a much older sister who has bipolar. She is now in a residential care setting and quite honestly I feel that at last she is safe. She has been sectioned multiple times and put herself in some dreadful situations. She became unwell when I was a young teenager after an awful divorce triggered her condition,

People can work when they receive PIP but she possibly gets other benefits, if she gets ESA she could be infringing that claim.

Working on farms won't work. No farm is going to allow a 3 year old unsupervised. If she can make it work without paid work then she might make a go of it. I imagine she will be back sharpish when she sees how cold the van is.

I wouldn't give much thought on her, let her go off and find herself but the poor boy - absolutely not. What mental health issues does she have? Is she gets more ill when she's away in the van with him would he/could he be in danger?? I'd be reporting this to social services if she does go off. Feel sorry for your parents too. Could she go and do it and leave the child behind?

If she can’t be deterred can she at least be encouraged to apply for a school place from your parents’ address for next September? At least then if it does go wrong she has a school place lined up.

I’m not sure many single parents would be able to work, raise a 3 year old and home school them while living in a van travelling the country and juggling mental health problems.

Lots of people live in vans/on boats with small children - it's not an outlandish notion. Certain MH issues could make it trickier; you have to be pretty organised and able to keep on top of issues, otherwise things can rapidly fall apart.

OP, I would not try to dissuade her - instead, encourage her to try it out in increments/do a test run. E.g. they move into the van but stay in your parents' driveway for a month so they still have access to home comforts in case of any teething issues with the heating/electric systems in the van. Either she'll realise it's not for her, or she might realise she'd prefer it as a summer only lifestyle (plenty of people will only live off grid for part of the year - it is definitely harder in winter!) OR she might love it and decide she's ready to jump in and start travelling. If it's the latter you'll hopefully all be a bit more reassured that she and her son will cope with a more nomadic lifestyle.

I think your parents are right. Also helping with ‘farming’ depends on the context. There are plenty of hosts on the workaway website that accept families.. and plenty of opportunities to help out with childcare etc. I would take a step back, make sure to keep lines of communication open in case, and make sure she has a good roadside rescue insurance

Can the family look after her son at home while she test drives the lifestyle? She will soon get fed up and return.

At least that way her child won't suffer.

Home schooling is fine if you're smart enough to impart the current knowledge required for modern life. I wouldn't be. I'd be hard pushed to explain many things, like IT skills say, that kids need. A local school would be much better.

Maybe she just wants to fit in. Is she taking her meds ok? My bipolar ex didn't and wondered how I knew. Because you turned into a bastard mate that how I knew. Not saying she's like that. Only asking if she's off her meds.

Thanks for the suggestions. I've put it to her that they try a weekend away first to see how it goes. Hopefully that puts things into perspective for her.

She sounds quite selfish as she is putting her own desires ahead of her son’s needs. I would also be concerned op. Not so much for her because she’s choosing that van life but for her little boy who has no say in the matter and will be losing all his securities and routine around him.

@ThanksItsUncleFranks I hate to say this but you need to tell social services what she's planning as its not a safe life for either of them and really quite neglectful of your dn

I can't really see that this is any of your business.

1. She will probably change her mind about the idea after a fortnight (if not sooner), so in effect, it's just a holiday.
2. She'd then have a greater likelihood of being deemed eligible for social housing, so could get somewhere secure, warm, dry and not requiring her to live with her parents.
3. Interfering, trying to get custody, etc, is more likely to push her completely away so that she has nothing to do with anybody related to them both even when safely in social housing.

Her parents are right. Let her try, she'll likely realise the reality of vanlife during a UK winter is considerably different to vanlife in the US climate with US vehicles and a vanlife influencer income.

There is one of those Ben Fogle "life off grid" programmes about van-lifers in the UK. It might be worth a watch for you both. If the van is only partially converted, how's she going to get it finished? Where will her DS go to the loo? One of the people in the fogle programme resorted to cat litter, for example. Where I've seen groups of vans gathered, cliff tops with free parking so you get nice sea views etc. they're always only adults or retired. It'd be a big ask with a little one, for example 5am starts if everyone around you in other vans has the means to sleep in until 8am

I'd report to social services- sounds very unsafe (risk of carbon monoxide poisoning for a start), presumably there is no sanitation (toilet and running water) and unless she is planning to commit benefit fraud by lying about her address she'll lose her benefits. Sleeping in a parked up vehicle isn't allowed in most areas unless you're in a motorhome park where you pay for a pitch. Very high risk for her child who will be living in one room with no safe place to play or sanitation.

I've lived in a van and a caravan at various times. It became hard.
I'd play up the amazing for next summer, a long trip track but look at fine tuning before then.

It's little things like realising you need an area for wet gear drying, a hook just there. You need less plates but a bigger washing up bowl
If she's van excited at the moment wouldn't she want to get it right whilst having access to your parents drive with things like a caulking gun nearby...maybe a weekend away but coming back with a list of stuff.

The van on weekends and holidays could give her enough freedom and distance (and for your parents) then come back on Monday for washing, school and batch cooking.

Welcome to the housing crisis, this sounds awful but more people are being driven to it. A lady near me has a motorhome parked outside a house permanently. Her children live in the house with family and she/partner live in the van, presumably because it's more affordable than getting their own place or getting a bigger house. I agree with PPs that this might be a workable compromise if lack of independent space is causing tensions. Better access to utilities and family support, and a stable address for son's nursery.

People can make their own life choices.

She's in a tough spot.

Are you offering to buy her a house?

Honestly, she might need to just try it and get it out of her system. Would it be possible for her to go on her own to try it out and your parents care for b for a set time?

I can't believe the posters saying to leave her to it. A child's life is literally at stake here, living in a vehicle over the winter. Definitely one for social services.

Quite surprised by a lot of these comments really. It’s not the “norm” but plenty of people do it and it works. I know of someone that actually lives in a van and homeschools and the kids are clean, well looked after, educated and also have experienced so many things that other kids haven’t. Seen how other cultures live and are very grounded.
she could attend play groups/join home schooling communities etc.
amazed by all these people saying report to SS

PIP is about what you need not what you actually get.

Not having the support that you ideally would have isn’t a reason to disqualify you for PIP.

I think your parents have taken the best attitude.
She's an adult, it's her son, it's your parents who are currently housing her.
If things seem to be falling apart in a few weeks/months, you or your parents can always step in & get SS involved if needed further down the line.

Could she make regular “pit stops” at yours for baths/ showers and to keep in touch?

So her MH is so poor she needs PIP, but she believes she can manage the logistics of van life, maintaining it, working, social interaction with other van life people, and homeschool her DC.
IF she is capable of all that, she's a total piss taker.
I think you're parents are spot on. Sounds like they know her well. Good job she's got them.

But the big difference here is the sister’s chaotic and unstable mental health, it reads very much as haring off on a whim chasing a windmill and not a well constructed plan.

Could she try it with out he son for a while? Could either you or your parents take him in for a little while?You could phase it as helping her out, to get established in that community, iron out the creases in the partially converted van.

Then you/ she could see if it is a viable lifestyle or not, before introducing a toddler into the mix.