The Yorkshire Ripper question?

[PassingStranger]

Just read that it cost the taxpayer 11 billion to keep him alive including his funeral?
Do you still feel the same way about him being hung for his murders?

is it acceptable to the taxpayer to pay that much, when there are so many other things that the money could have been spent on, or dosent the money matter?

I understand that, but I guess what I'm asking is - what satisfaction would there be in their death, when the alternative is that they have to spend the rest of their life in prison, which is a worse punishment? How is it "better" justice or vengeance for them to die?

Well if we're going to start listing factual inaccuracies in the DM, we'll be here all day. Have you seen the quality of online journalism these days?

Because I like hill walking, 'the algorithm' shows me lots of 'top 10 walks in the UK' type features and, against my better judgement, I read one the other day.

It was clear that it had been cobbled together by someone who'd never left an urban area and just spent a few minutes googling 'nice hill walks we can publish in the hope we get some clicks and someone accidentally clicks on an advert and buys something so we might get paid for this shit we produce'.

Every walk was accompanied by a stated 'alliteration' and a random number of metres. It was only when I realised that alliteration should have been elevation? that I worked out they also thought they were saying how high the hill was or perhaps how much climbing there was in the walk. And every single one was wrong. Mixing feet and metres was common. There was an apparent claim there is a near 600 metre peak in the middle of Regent's Park (yes, the one in London).

Just because it's in the Daily Mail, or most other online websites, doesn't mean it's true.

I was a very young woman when Sutcliffe was murdering women and I remember a friend being offered a place at Leeds Uni and turning it down because he was killing women there. We all had a fear that he would turn up in any city, in effect he curfewed women and girls and of course men were free to just live their lives. I also remember the anger so many felt when he killed a female who was not working as a prostitute "The Ripper's first innocent victim" was one of the headlines!! as if ANY woman deserves to be beaten and slashed to death. It is now believed that he attacked many more than are included in the "official" count, it is shocking what a man who truly hates women is capable of.

erm hi there
I never said it was true, I was merely pointed out that the reporting said 11 billion when you (not YOU but the thread) were savaging the op about that.
I didn't believe it, I just read it earlier and rolled my eyes then pointed it out that the daily fail said it
That was my contribution to the thread.

Someone like Chris Watts (USA) should have general population in prison allowed access.

He shouldn’t just be allowed to correspond with ridiculous women who find a family annihilator “ sexy”.

Even supposing I agreed PS should have been executed (which I don’t), you can’t instate the death penalty for one person. It has to be for all. And then what happens when the inevitable miscarriage of justice happens? What happens when it’s your loved one, who is on the wrong end of it.

And as it goes, miscarriages of Justice WRT the death penalty don’t just mean one person dies unjustly- which is bad enough. It means that real killers go free- because nobody in law enforcement, prosecutors offices, or the judiciary ever wants to admit that they got the death penalty wrong. So cases don’t get reopened, or evidence gets suppressed, and real criminals go free- and do kill again.

It’s really not the answer at all, to anything.

That poster is kind of right.

E.g. rapists whose DNA is found in/on their victim don't usually dispute having had sex with the victim - they usually base their defence on the question of consent.

Similarly, DNA at murder scene just proves someone was there at some point. It doesn't necessarily prove they committed, or even witnessed, the murder. They could have been there half an hour before.

It's very naive to think that the presence of DNA = case closed, and if our police thought like that there would be even more unsafe convictions.

@oakleffy no, no he shouldn't be in gen pop in prison

Do you have no thought or care for us staff who would get injured constantly going in to break up fights?? No...thought not

It's the usual cavalier attitude on mumsnet!

Nobody here would be able to work on a death row style setting. Prison is no joke. There's no staff and no resources for this fantasy

If execution is the fate of the murderer, what should the fate of the executioner be? Is murder not murder if sanctioned by the state and those who are sane?

A traitor used to be hung, drawn and quartered. "Witches" were burnt at the stake, as were Protestants and Catholics. As a society we became more civilised. I have no wish to go backwards.

Peter Sutcliff was evil and mentally ill. He was locked up for the rest of his life. Rightly so.

Did Lucy Letby do it?
Did Jeremy Bamber do it?

Do we execute the executioner because they have committed a "murder"? Does it go on into perpetuity until there are none. What would happen to those who refused as we run out of volunteers?

yes. I did say not my fault, but some people are so hell bent on trying to get one over, and repeating themselves. zzzzzzzz. Have a word with the person who wrote the original story.🙄

I understand a handful of people are locked up for life, but most people only have to serve a minimum term and alot of is pathetic.
If you want to take the DP away, then make everyone serve a whole life for murder.
Everything just gets softer.
Not my fault if some people cant understand what I have said..

Apologies for not reading the whole thread, but if Peter Sutcliffe had never been caught, had never been convicted, and had never been imprisoned we wouldn't have spent any less money on our prison service, on the court system, or on the police.

It's a meaningless sum of money

There is pretty much always scope for miscarriage of justice, however small. Even with DNA, CCTV, a confession.

I accept some cases it's very unlikely (e.g. a public terrorist killing with several unconnected witnesses) but it's not really about the individual crime or how disturbing it is.

I work in a prison and I have cut down many men trying to ligature.... there is NO WAY I would work somewhere where in another room we are killing prisoners

I don't think many serving staff would....and there is virtually NO staff. We save lives daily

So good luck with your recruitment drive!!

Do you mean in the National Portrait Gallery?

How have they come to 11 million?

In the UK they state a single persons level of income for a 'acceptable' living is £29,500 (bare in mind many people do live below this too).

That is a free person who buys the food they want, pays their own bills, rent/mortgage, own clothing and 'luxury' items (phones, internet, holidays, games consoles, music/arts etc...), has subscriptions, runs a car or pays for travel, has social days/events etc...

How can a person who lives a limited life in 1 room of a mass housing building, on pre-set micro budgeted meals, no luxury add on or associated 'fun' living costs cost over £344,000 per year?

I mean if you take running costs for a whole prison wing including electric, food and multiple salaried staffing (which is economically creating jobs) yes but he is just ONE prisoner. Even with staffing the staff costs aren't soley his.

The ministry of Justice reports the cost to keep a prisoner in their system is £32,716 annually at the moment. That makes it barely over 1 million for 32 years of incarceration and the cost are based on current inflation, they would be less in the past.

I don't think people should be so quick to accept 'shock' news paper articles as utter fact.

Sorry OP, that’s your fault too. The whole basis of this thread was to discuss the £11billion million cost to the taxpayer.

Do you now think £11 million is too much? Or are we just having a froth?

Things have got ‘softer’. There is no longer a debtors prison and we don’t criminalise men for being gay any more either. We no longer burn witches at the stake.

Very many of us like living in a society that values human life and protects it. I’m glad we’re not like the taliban and some American states in our attitudes to crime and punishment.

Anyway sorry for my personal attack on your character and comprehension. That was rude and mean

One reason most civilised societies abolished the death penalty is to uphold that the most important thing for us all is our lives. Miscarriage of justice happens, sometimes it takes years before new scientific techniques or better understanding clues, catch up with murder sentences that could make an innocent person being executed.

The first right to human life is life itself. Nothing on this earth could excuse executing one single innocent life by the state.

Timothy Evans - just one name to demonstrate why we should never bring back the death penalty.

The problem is that every miscarriage of justice is a case where there was no doubt about their crimes - until there was. But beyond that, I cannot sanction a state that says killing is wrong and then goes on to kill. There are no good reasons for killing.

This 👏👏👏
Fucking disgusting it was

I used to live in the area, and at one stage my dad was interviewed by the police as a possible suspect. At that stage they were looking for a man who spoke with a Geordie accent, who was a red head. (And other criteria which I'm not going to post as they would truly be too identifying). Every single one of those described my dad. Who couldn't prove he wasn't in the area of any of the murders on those specific dates.

So potentially he could have been arrested and hung. Even though he was innocent.

How would you feel about that @PassingStranger if it had been your dad, or partner or husband, or brother?