How would you fix the NHS?

[PinkFruitbat]

The Government is asking for ideas on how to fix the NHS.

https://change.nhs.uk/en-GB/

What would you do to fix it?

The UK was one of only a tiny number of major EU economy who didn't impose some control over immigration from the ascension countries from Eastern Europe admitted to the EU during Blair's reign. He could have limited the numbers like other major EU countries, but he chose not to.

Labour lost power in 2010

The Tories have done nothing except run the NHS down from 2010 to 2024

Social care, illness prevention, education, training and outreach programmes were either cut or so severely impaired they were reduced to a pile of leaflets on a table in a corner somewhere

The British population have never been so fat, unfit or chronically sick in it's entire history and with NHS resources so stretched, it's just stupidity to blame one government for anything

Irrelevant & nothing to do with the current state of NHS.

We have failed to invest in the NHS for an aging and an increasingly fat and unhealthy population.

Fwiw, I'm far more worried about the millions of African and SE Asian migrants allowed in over the last 5 years, some 3m, often older dependents and few workers will ever return, its not as if Manila is a 2 hour flight away.

But then Tories will always point to a Blair migration error 22 years ago, rather than their own policy of 1m net migrants per year invited in to the UK....

I don’t think we’d have brexitted if Blair had controlled immigration

I agree.

Set up a proper insurance scheme.
Expect patients to take some responsibility.
Get rid of under-performing staff.
Remove it from Government control.

Set up a proper insurance scheme.

you mean a for profit insurance scheme opposed to the not for profit insurance scheme with have now

remove from government control

to the control of a for profit company

Expect patients to take some responsibility.

why would a for profit company want people to take responsibility & profits decline?

Net immigration under Blair 210k per year, since we left the EU in 2020, running at around 700k per year.. last year 1m.... pretty much all non white and increasing support for Reform etc.

Yet still the media support Brexit, a large minority of the public too & calls to rejoin pushed to the margins.

Stupidity led to Brexit.

Insurance schemes are just another cost or tax & create yet more paper work for all.

Yes for responsibility.

Who decides who is under performing?

If not Govt control, who? Direct Govt control is best, as that leads to direct accountability.
Hunt washed his hands of maternity services/staffing because he could blame NHSE and the Trusts.

Link to bbc article may 2016 -errr what caused Brexit….
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36258541

What caused Brexit was a weak and stupid David Cameron allowing a Referendum, UKiP in 2010 and 2015 hardly got more votes than the Greens.

But this is supposed to be a thread about the NHS...

UKIP received nearly 4 million votes in the 2015 general election (12.6% of the vote share) - the Greens 3.8% of the vote with a bit over 1 million votes;

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election/2015/results

Although, not forgetting that one million people who applied to the EU settlement scheme were not in fact born in the EU;

'There are roughly one million people living in the UK under EU freedom of movement rules, who were born outside of the EU ...'

'during the UK’s membership of the EU, freedom of movement was a major driver of immigration to the UK of people born outside of the EU'

Continent of birth:
Africa - 245,770
Americas - 182,066
Asia - 392,128...
https://ukandeu.ac.uk/diversity-eu-national-population-uk/

How many MPs did UKiP get in 2010 and 2015? & just 900k votes n 2010.

Bottom line, migration wasn't why DC gave a referendum, one that his chancellor strongly advised him against but stupid Cameron didn't take this.

As the UK didn't count in or out EU migrants, figures are at best guesses but non white EU citizens where included in FOM....

You could have health insurance schemes set up by mutuals, like the few remaining mutual insurers and building societies. The NHS isn't an insurance based system.

I would focus on coordinated care between GPs, hospitals, social care and bring back convalescent homes to stop bed blocking. More doctors, nurses, dentists and care workers and less administrators. Focus on prevention rather than cure and a big debate needs to happen about keeping people alive when they have poor quality of life/terminal illness/ severe disabilities. That is a sensitive subject and I understand some may not be comfortable with it but when resources are scarce it is important they be directed to where they do the most good.

How would you get more people to train as Doctors Nurses etc? there is only a finite number of people clever enough who can do these jobs & if they become HCP's, then who does engineering science law accounting etc etc

Where does the money come from to pay for more staff and then pay them more? people leave the care sector to work in other so called low skill sectors that pay more.
If you pay carers more, then what happens when other sectors up their wages to keep them in Hospitality Retail etc...

As seen in Reeves budget, everyone thinks they shouldn't be paying more taxes and will protest very loudly when they are forced too.

How many MPs did UKiP get in 2010 and 2015? & just 900k votes n 2010

You said votes, not MPs - and UKIP received three times as many votes as the Greens in 2010 as well, not 'hardly any more.'

What do you mean by non-white EU citizens were included in FOM?

Net immigration under Blair 210k per year

Net estimates for 2004-2007 are nearer 300,000 following EU expansion (and that is probably an underestimate);

e.g. net immigration 2004/268,000, 2007/273,000 or excluding British citizens, 2004/349,000, 2007/330,000.

https://migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/resources/briefings/long-term-international-migration-flows-to-and-from-the-uk/

@Alexandra2001Well personally I didnt vote for Brexit which means we would have a bigger pool to draw on for doctors. Immigration from other parts of the world or make doctors who have trained in UK stay for a minimum period before emigrating. I think we need to look at different levels of healthcare assistants/nurses so not all need to go to university. Higher taxes may be needed or less expensive intervention when quality of life poor. Sad to say but we really cannot afford to spend to keep people alive at any cost.

@Cornishclio Nursing is a very skilled job now a days, my DD did a healthcare degree, not nursing, it covers a great deal of things.

Yes Brexit helped wreck the UKs ability to attract, European equivalently skilled people, with excellent language skills & led to what many who did vote for it, get what they didn't want... more migration from Africa/SE Asia.

Ime the NHS doesn't keep people alive regardless, they didn't with my mum and my DD tells me they don't more generally.

But of course, if someone can have more mobility, better eye sight or be pain free for an extra few months, do we deny them that?

My Fil is 80, he needs a new knee, they have attached strict criteria to the operation and have atm said NO, i do appreciate this is one trust, maybe they don't all have the same criteria?

Still under 1m votes.... and not a reason to have a Referendum... which was the point i was answering, also figures from that time period estimates....

Unlike the 900k net who came here under Sunak.....

But this is a thread about the NHS, not Brexit/Migration or non white EU citizens given FOM...

So i'll leave you too it.

I thought National Insurance paid for pension and NHS, then when someone comes to live her in uk from abroad they pay a lump sum to get access - as they’ve not paid NI contributions

There is no shortage of applicants for medical degree courses. They're massively oversubscribed. The problem is lack of degree and training places which means people who want to become medics either can't get on the course in the first place, or they get onto the course and find there are no training places for them. It's certainly not a shortage of applicants. Medical degrees are one of the most oversubscribed courses.

Still under 1m votes.... and not a reason to have a Referendum... which was the point i was answering

UKIP received nearly 4 million votes in the 2015 general election - and well over 4 million votes in the 2014 European Parliament elections (4,376,635).

There's no ring fencing - if there's too little NIC then the shortfall comes out of general taxation. And remember most NIC is just a tax, it's certainly not any form of what would generally be regarded as an insurance scheme.