To see this offender as a “criminal first” as opposed to a child?

[cofefefela]

I was robbed last week by some disgusting male who had been following me, he threatened to kill me, ignored me begging him not to etc. The absolute waste of oxygen’s movements could then be followed as some of my stolen electronics had tracking. This twat not only kept returning to the scene of the crime, he ended up robbing someone else there days later!

He has now been arrested. There’s CCTV footage of him committing the crime so he’s been charged and it’s gone to court. He’s had the audacity to plead not guilty and I found out he’s a youth defendant. There will be a trial next year, and my stolen property has not been recovered.

This has made me annoyed as he’ll likely end up with a slap on the wrist as he’s a “child”, although he had no problem committing such serious crimes repeatedly and showing zero remorse throughout. Aibu? I feel like he should be tried as an adult, he’s a danger to society.

I lived in a shitty area for a long time. I wouldn't really think about it, don't waste any more energy on him. His life will be miserable and he will eventually end up either pissing off the wrong person and stabbed/beaten to death in a ditch somewhere or overdosing on heroin. These type of people just disappear after a while and it's not prison where they end up.

I don't think you know any of their stories. I worked in a PRU and every single one of those students had heartbreaking stories. We never got one and thought "how did you end up here", it was always blatantly obvious how they'd become what they had once their full history was known.

Yes, they knew right from wrong and they knew the impact their actions had, they absolutely should be making better choices, but they were angry at the world and rightly so. In most cases the fact that they coped as well as they did was a masterpiece of resilience.

I think overall my thoughts are that people like
my attacker, don’t actually care about rehabilitation. Sure they’ll likely go through the motions as it’s a softer option for them but it’s unlikely to fundamentally change them and steer them in a new direction. I think to successfully do that, you first need to understand what does really influence and drive them?

And in my opinion it’s bravado, it’s being able to stunt on social media, it’s following a glamorised gangster lifestyle and getting kudos from their dodgy peers. They’ve gone through life thinking school is uncool already. If their peers don’t rate them getting qualifications or becoming an honest tradesperson, the offender won’t care either? The culture for these scrotes is talking about committing crimes on social media like it’s nothing, being heavily influenced by artists that produce music promoting criminal activity, seeing robbing people as being “on their grind” etc. Ultimately they don’t respect authority - you can’t rehabilitate that.

You can’t treat someone who is classed as a child as if they are an adult though in terms of criminal justice only. At 14 you’re either an adult or you’re not. It can’t just be that you’re an adult when it comes to the justice system but in all other areas of life you’re still a child. Either 14 is the age at which we now reach adulthood or it’s not. Im just taking emotion and the unfairness of it all out of the equation here and looking at it logically.

I’ve no doubt that some of the people I crossed paths with came from awful backgrounds, the school I went to had a wide catchment in a large city and many travelled in from deprived, inner city areas. However the majority of those pupils strived for better than how they grew up, and didn’t take it out on their peers/teachers. I had an awful childhood myself so I get it.

Going through difficult things doesn’t give you a free pass to be horrible and commit crime, that’s certainly a choice.

I think if we’re looking at it logically though, the disparity in sentencing between an 18 year old and someone who is 17 turning 18 in 2 weeks, is shocking. There is little deterring under 18s to commit crime

What you think is wrong though, and you’re not listening.

Rehabilitation, in countries who do it properly; DOES work. You thinking it won’t doesn’t matter one bit. You’re wrong. Even in this country, where we don’t do it well, rehabilitation efforts are still more effective than simple punishment.

You’re just wrong. I get that you’re angry and you want to see him punished but… why? It doesn’t work, there will be more victims, he won’t go on to do at all well in life, we’ll be supporting him through benefits or prison. But if he goes through community service and training in a trade, which is offered, then he has a chance at a lawful life in which he contributes to society.

Yes and if all that is true, what is the benefit of sending them to prison and building their credibility/bravado further?

Of course they're not interested in rehabilitation at that point, that's the point.

The simple fact is that in countries where more compassionate rehabilitation methods (Norway) are used they have a 20% reoffending rate and low crime, and where it's all about punishment (eg USA) they have much higher crime rates and a reoffending rate close to 80%

Why? Because you’re essentially saying his life is worth more than mine. It’s totally okay for him to traumatise me for life where I might not be able to contribute to society, because god forbid he gets punished for committing a violent crime.

You're not listening. Why do you want revenge, rather than a system that would reduce these kinds of offences?. It's not about him or you, but about society as a whole.

I understand what you’re saying but also there is always going to be a line. Pay for under a certain age has a line, legally allowed to have sex, drink, vote etc - there’s not a two month grace period either side so there’s either a line or there isn’t .. as brutal and unfair as that can often be.

But this feels like coming from a place of revenge as opposed to justice.

Of course it's justice. The worthless piece of shit (and all others like him) should face severe punishments for their heinous crimes.

I reported your previous post. Just giving you a heads up.

But long term who does that help? The facts are that treating him that way leads to reoffeding and escalation of the level of crimes. Plus costs a fortune to tax payers. Why is that a desirable thing?

I'm well aware people have their minds made up and don't want to hear it, but the other way can and does make everyone safer.

He already is a hardened criminal. Given that he managed to overpower an adult male, his effect on his victims can't get much worse. The principal purpose of imprisonment is to stop someone committing crimes. He can't harm a member of the public while locked up.

So how long are you going to lock him up for and how much tax are you prepared to pay to pay for it?

Community sentences are a joke among criminals. I'm all in favour of training schemes, but these can take place while this violent young man is safely locked away from society.

That’s not at all what I’m saying. Rehabilitating someone so they become an asset to society rather than committing further criminal acts is not at all saying his life is more important than yours.

What do you lose? What have we taken away from you to give to him, if it’s making your life lesser? What are you losing in order for him to be rehabilitated? What cost is there to you for you to say your life has been made “worth less than his?”

I'm really sorry this happened to you, I hope that you have been offered counselling, I think I'd definitely need it after something like that.

Wouldn't it be good if part of rehabilitation was that they had to do jobs (in prison or on the outside) to earn money to pay for their victim's counselling.

It makes absolutely no sense to say anyone over 14 should be treated as if they were an adult - it is hard to respond to the ridiculousness of that sentence.

It is terribly upsetting to be the victim of crime. It is awful knowing there are some people (youths or adults) who are repeat offenders.

But children are not adults and treating them as adults in the criminal justice system would simply make it even more likely they will reoffend.

You're angry and traumatised. You would benefit from some therapy as what happens to you sounds very impactful.

But no one is saying his life is worth more than yours. You are not reading properly, perhaps due to how upset you feel.

The argument about punishment vs. rehabilitation has been going on since ancient times. It might not be a helpful argument for you to get into right now, given your recent horrible experience.

YANBU.

A bunch of feral teenagers killed my friend's dad. It was a while ago, 15-ish years back, but still. There were 6 of them ranging from 13 - 15 in age.

The victim was coming home from a late shift, and crossing a local park. They asked him for a cigarette and started beating him. Kicked him when he was down, stamped on his head until he started twitching. Then they robbed him and threw his body in the pond. He was alive still at that point.

One of the 'children' got 3 years, another one 2 years, the rest went free.

I don't care how old they were, I'd lock them up forever. What's the use of them.

And yes, predictably the ringleaders of the group came out of prison and reoffended. Multiple times. Haven't killed more people AFAIK, but committed robberies, assaults, one went back to prison for rape.

Human garbage.

I could suggest a much briefer alternative, but you won't like it. How much are you prepared to pay in police time for investigating whatever he's done this week?

Ultimately though, short sentences don't work. You've got no time to get any rehabilitation work done (if a literacy course takes six months and there's a three month waiting list then with everything else going on you'll struggle to fit it in to less than 12 months). These sorts of people terrorise communities. Often the only respite the community gets is when the offenders (eventually) get locked up. The bulk of a given town's crime rate is down to a handful of nominals, lock one or two of them up and the local crime rate drops significantly.

When a career scumbag finally pushes things too far and realises that he's looking at a reasonable stretch (three or four years or so), it's amazing how his attitude changes in the interview room. He stops spitting, he stops swearing, he calls the officer "sir", he wants to grass up all his mates. He wants his missus to bring in the photos of the kids, he's wondering who she'll be shagging while he's inside.