To see this offender as a “criminal first” as opposed to a child?

[cofefefela]

I was robbed last week by some disgusting male who had been following me, he threatened to kill me, ignored me begging him not to etc. The absolute waste of oxygen’s movements could then be followed as some of my stolen electronics had tracking. This twat not only kept returning to the scene of the crime, he ended up robbing someone else there days later!

He has now been arrested. There’s CCTV footage of him committing the crime so he’s been charged and it’s gone to court. He’s had the audacity to plead not guilty and I found out he’s a youth defendant. There will be a trial next year, and my stolen property has not been recovered.

This has made me annoyed as he’ll likely end up with a slap on the wrist as he’s a “child”, although he had no problem committing such serious crimes repeatedly and showing zero remorse throughout. Aibu? I feel like he should be tried as an adult, he’s a danger to society.

Except that the overwhelming evidence is that doesn't ever happen.

How old is he? I'm with you. If it looks like an adult criminal and acts like an adult criminal, it's an adult criminal. Sorry you had to go through this.

You’re the deluded one who doesn’t seem to have read anything on this subject.

Punishment doesn’t work. Support and rehabilitation programmes, help into employment, training in a trade… that all helps. Convicted people who spend their community service in one of training programmes to learn a trade have much better outcomes than those going to prison.

Punishment might feel righteous, it might make you clap and cheer and go home happy that they’ve been locked up… but then what? They’re whole life becomes a roundabout of crime and then punishment and then more crime and more punishment. What good is that for society? Where is the wider good in that?

Rehabilitation and training is the wider good. It results in fewer reoffenders, therefore fewer victims. Should we ignore that just so you can feel good when the bars are slammed shut on a criminal?

It's not unreasonable you're angry and upset at being attacked; I think everyone would be in those circumstances. But I don't think children should be tried as adults, not least because prison is not a deterrant and those that go in are more likely to come out with more problems and criminal skills than they went in with. Since they're also unlikely to get gainful employment afterwards (or find anywhere to live), they'll go back to committing crimes.

Older people also frequently get younger kids to commit crimes because they know it's unlikely they'll be jailed/receive punishments as harsh as the adult.

And of course, some kids truly are shits. Regardless of which category they fall into, children still shouldn't be tried as adults.

Exactly!

plus in this case, he already has reoffended. He has been charged with multiple robberies which are caught on camera. He stared at me and looked me right in the eye as he was attacking me ignoring my pleas for him to stop. He’s too far gone, he’s already a hardened criminal.

His only regret is likely that he got caught, because he hasn’t shown any remorse to date. The piece of shit could easily have apologised, admitted his guilt, identified where the stolen items are etc.

I think the idea of him being rehabilitated is really cute, it really is, but it’s utterly unrealistic under the circumstances

The fact he attacked a woman who he obviously knows he is physically stronger than should go against him imo. Also the fact that the sentence is worlds apart for a 17yo and an 18yo is ridiculous. I understand that a 12yo might be treated differently but at 17? There should be harsher sentencing at that age.

Agree. Even if he was 12yo I wouldn't have any sympathy. As proven they can be scum.

He is not beyond rehabilitation. You are not qualified to make that determination.

Sexual predators, pedophiles… you could make a case that they are almost always impossible to rehabilitate. But theft/mugging and that sort of thing, isn’t beyond rehabilitation. Especially at his young age. As a society, we shouldn’t just forget about them and give up. What would be the benefit?

I am sorry this happened to you sounds very frightening

the younger they are the more likely rehabilitation work can be successful. I do understand why you do not want to consider but he is very likely to have been let down, it’s not an excuse it’s a reason why so many children turn to crime/are violent

He has committed multiple crime. Whether he is tried as an adult or a child, it’s still more likely that he will end up as a hardened criminal than he won’t. I don’t get the argument that treating him as an adult might make him worse. He doesn’t give a shit. Being tried as a child won’t change that.

I don’t see the issue in being tried as an adult at all.

That goes against all neurological information we have today. Teenagers have a brain which is still forming.

Holding them to the same punishment and not the engagement with age specific rehabilitation will only continue the current issues.

Scandinavian countries use a lot of restorative justice. Which on stats appear to be more successful.

Yes limit their freedom but do so in a format that is showing results. The current approach in UK isn't working.

Friend who’s a criminal solicitor said about 90% of crimes in most places are committed by about 20 kids over and over again

In that case the "kids" must grow out of it, if the same people aren't committing crimes as adults...

To the victim, the reason isn’t their main preoccupation.

Are you in Scotland OP? Apparently men aren't responsible for their actions until they are 25 according to our Gov 🙄.

Which is why in a civilised society we can't have the victims deciding on the punishment.

It costs c. £50k pa to keep someone in prison. The support that could be offered with that....Currently we don't do that either because of the way the public brays for harsh treatment, but that doesn't help and just perpetuates the reoffending and increases the cost to the taxpayer.

Other countries have managed to reduce reoffending rates to 20% (ours is 50% within a year of release) by supporting people properly, but no one here wants to invest in that. It's cutting off your nose to spite your face.

And that is why I acknowledged I understand why the op does not want to consider reasoning

You did, fair enough.

Which is why we victims don't get to pass the judgement...

This type of reasoning discriminates against certain children though... they can't be an adult criminal if they are under 18 because they are legally a child. And criminal justice is based in law. Not appearances. There are loads of other factors that must be taken into account for us to have a fair and equitable justice system.

Please change the law then. The victim must come first. Being legally a child doesn't stop a child from committing crimes, right up to murder as in the case of the man who was recently killed by two boys with machetes. The safety of the public must be the top priority - you don't get a licence to kill IMHO because you haven't quite made 18...

The thing is, my specific offender has attacked at least twice. I wouldn’t be surprised if he has committed some form of criminal activity before, because to otherwise jump from being an upstanding member of society to suddenly following random people and committing violent robberies twice in one week, without an intermediate step, seems unbelievable.

So I don’t know exactly what his parents or the authorities have done with him before but it seems like the soft approach he has already been given, hasn’t stopped him from choosing this lifestyle…

Plus I’m in my 20s, it wasn’t that long ago that I was in under 18. I knew of idiots in my school/college who were criminals and were involved with drugs/violence/theft/fraud and wannabe gangsters. They were just as horrible inside school as they were outside of school, bullying people and constantly being excluded. I don’t think every “youth” offender is a poor susceptible child needing to be saved, some of them fully know the power of their actions and make the decision to be shitty people themselves.

A 17yo who kills is going to prison. Stop making yourself look stupid, the law doesn't need changing, the 17yo who attacked students at his boarding school got life for attempted murder.

That's my point though. At the moment we're so hung up on punishment, that we can't afford, that we don't do any of the rehabilitation stuff well either.