“Miss” and “Sir” in schools

[MyCleverGrayBear]

Been to lots of secondary school open days recently. At the state secondaries the children showing parents around etc called the teachers “Sir” and “Miss”. Is that normal? I haven’t heard this IRL ever.

(To be clear, “Miss, this parent wants to know about languages at school” vs “Mrs Jones, this parent would like to see the sports centre”. But also in a couple of classrooms there were children constantly saying “Miss, look at this, Miss, I’ve out the sign up, Miss, shall I stand here” etc and it was incredibly grating.)

And why are female teachers “Miss” and make teachers “Sir”? I felt like I was in a bad 80’s Grange Hill episode and Benny Hill was about to run in and chase me 🫣

The issue is why do the men get the better titles.

Are you OK with that?

Suits you Sir.

No, they would be Dr <surname>

I teach languages so I’m “Madame” or “Señora” which sounds better than Miss! Just around the building I’m Miss, though.

What? It’s completely normal!

Because Sir is a term of respect whereas Miss is infantilising and categorises a woman according to her marital status.

It's also a throwback from the days when all teachers were Miss because married women weren't supposed to work outside the home and teaching was a spinster job.

I'm a Miss, as in that's the title I use in daily life. Is that a lesser title than Sir? Is that by definition that unmarried women, or the title used for unmarried women, is just a lesser title? Seems a bit sexist to make that assumption to me. Especially when in a school setting where the children are using Sir and Miss, they are of equal standing and don't confer a lesser status.

I know of two schools where those are used

It makes you feel ancient!!

Sir and Madam at our school.

I went to a school in Surrey that said ‘Sir’ and ‘Ma’am’ . It was rude to say ‘Miss’ there

Exactly!

I don’t think a kid has ever given it a second thought. Even if a teacher was married we still called her Miss, and we didn’t think Sir was an actual knighted teacher, he was just a bloke.

I’m not sure I follow your argument. Miss, Mrs and Ms are all contractions of Mistress.

Miss is specifically used for young girls. And unmarried women. And as a PO has pointed out, married women didn’t tend to teach.

In The same way young boys are sometimes call Master Smith. However once a young boy hits adulthood it’s Mr regardless of martial status. No unmarried 29 year old is referred to as Master Smith😊

It's totally respectful.

They use Sir in the army and police.

Yes it is a lesser title than Sir. Look up what Sir means

Older staff, generally

You weren't allowed to call them anything else though were you.

"Saying “Sir” can be traced back hundreds of years when men of “lower social standing” attempted to assert their authority on upper-class boys. “Miss” goes back to Victorian times when only unmarried female teachers were employed."

Hope it's ok to quote something from th'internet.

Normal, as it was in the early 90s when I was at secondary school.

I’m a teacher. I’m Mrs Madness but most kids just call me Miss Madness or just Miss. Really doesn’t bother me at all. Especially the kid in Year 7 I don’t teach asking me a question in a very polite way 🤷🏻‍♀️

Yes, miss and sir are quite normal.

Whether it’s sexist or not, it’s completely normal in the UK and I’m amazed you’ve never come across it! I called all my teachers miss or sir in high school as does my son in his school now. I taught in primary for a while and was called miss there too. Was not in the slightest bit bothered by this. There are definitely more pressing things to get worked up about as a teacher!

I don't think that Miss is sexist but if it is, its much less sexist than Mrs [surname of the man she married].

As a kid I could not imagine calling a teacher Madam, that sounds wierd (unlike the French Madame which doesn’t sound wierd). Anyway don’t Madams also run brothels, I think we’d have made a few playground jokes about that.

That’s very quickly going to become “hey, lady!” (which I have heard, from some random guy in the street in Toronto, but it was significantly less respectful than “miss”).

I have literally never seen it as a better title, never crossed my mind. Then again, I never try to look for things to be offended by.