“Miss” and “Sir” in schools

[MyCleverGrayBear]

Been to lots of secondary school open days recently. At the state secondaries the children showing parents around etc called the teachers “Sir” and “Miss”. Is that normal? I haven’t heard this IRL ever.

(To be clear, “Miss, this parent wants to know about languages at school” vs “Mrs Jones, this parent would like to see the sports centre”. But also in a couple of classrooms there were children constantly saying “Miss, look at this, Miss, I’ve out the sign up, Miss, shall I stand here” etc and it was incredibly grating.)

And why are female teachers “Miss” and make teachers “Sir”? I felt like I was in a bad 80’s Grange Hill episode and Benny Hill was about to run in and chase me 🫣

Its the norm in England, State or Public schools, Its a tradition dating back to the 20th century. Back then, teaching was seen as semi-professional and using titles like "Miss" or "Sir" was a way to show respect and maintain a sense of authority in the class room. Even though times have changed, the custom stuck around.

It changed for me when I was in the 6th form and was allowed to call teachers by their first name.

*BunnyLake *

it’s not really. The OP appears to have been living on Mars and a few other by people have chimed in with feminist viewpoints on the matter.
In real life and 20 years of teaching the only time I have ever heard anyone object to Miss was a colleague with a PHD who liked to be known as Dr.
As a poster upthread said the kids are always respectful when they say it and it’s often accompanied by things like ‘You ok Miss?’
‘nice weekend, Miss?’ or ‘Thanks for the lesson, Miss’.

@BunnyLake I did Jury Service a few years ago. It was Coroner's Court and the Coroner was female. The case involved several members of the police giving statements. They all called her "Ma'am" but it came out as "Maaarm" the way that coppers seem to do.
Us Jury had to try not to giggle sometimes because it sounded like we were in an episode of The Bill.

"Calling teachers 'miss' is disrespectful and sexist."

I can see the argument for sexist although I don't think it is myself as it's used for all women whether married or not. I think it's more sexist to make a distinction.

But where do you get disrespectful from? It's a respectful title.

But it’s about the message it sends to the children. Men get grander title than women.

And I do not believe that sir is equal to miss. No one has ever been summonsed to the palace to have the title of miss bestowed on them😂

Miss is short for Mistress ffs
And most of us who do the job and get called it every day, couldn't give a fuck

Actually I'd think it's the other way around :-)

I'm in New England so my kids say 'Maym' whereas I think of 'Marm' as the UK pronunciation.

It’s not important. It doesn’t influence my choice of school for my child. At all. But it surprised me and irritated me.

In one classroom, there were several helpers all using “Miss” in every sentence and it annoyed me in the same way multiple children (my own) saying “mum, mum, mum” sometimes gets a bit wearing 🫣

Have you seen my sign Miss? Do you like it Miss? Can I have a drink Miss? Can I have a biscuit Miss?” Etc. They were at least 13.

In a school sense I’ve never considered then different to be honest. But as I’ve said, if teachers are bothered then great, let’s deal with it, if not then I’d rather address one of the million other issues that teachers and women have to face that would genuinely change their lives. I don’t think that kids notice the difference between Sir and Miss, but they would notice the difference about jobs, roles, treatment of female teachers.

Where, in your assessment, do feminism and equality differ.

the word feminist tends to be an insult spat at women trying to argue for equal treatment😊

In the drama Silk the clerks have to call the barristers Sir and Miss.
I'm not so keen on this between adults.

Crap. Outed as the person who lives on Mars.

Totally normal in every school I’ve worked in for the past 30 years, bar one which purported to be posh (bloody hell, it was not!) where female teachers were called ‘ma’am’, struck me as very odd being northern! There is one married teacher who insists on being called Mrs Surname which the children find odd.

I call other teachers Miss and Sir in front of the kids.

Erm, when the school has 50+ teachers then support staff, management etc, etc, probably. My children's school has 300 pupils per year group, so imagine the teachers they have for each subject. Half of them wouldn't teach you, so why would you know their name?

When addressing the Queen the rhyme was always ‘Mam as in ham, not Ma’am and in palm’.

But I actually think Ma’am and in palm sounds better….

It's absolutely the norm in all the schools I've worked with over the last 20 years. B

Finally! It’s a state school-bashing thread. So sorry your DC are going to have to slum it with us guttersnipes who call teachers Sir and Miss. That pesky VAT!!

Oh it's a state school bashing thread !!!!

Perfectly normal. I wouldn't have wanted to be summoned by Mrs or my name as a supply teacher that would have been a drag for the children. Sir and Madam seems odd so although Sir and Miss aren't a natural pairing, I think it works.

independent

AHA. That explains it

Secondary school teacher here. This is normal practice in every school I’ve ever taught in. Not only that but teaching assistants often refer to the teacher as Miss or Sir if they’re talking to a child in the classroom and sometimes so do other teachers. It was a sign of respect originally. Married women were not allowed to be teachers nationally in the UK until 1944 (they had to resign on marriage) so all women were ‘Miss’ and that tradition has just stuck.

Very normal, I was in secondary from 2010-2017 including sixth form. It was either Miss or Sir.

Yes and no. Some schools are huge. There are teachers and students who's paths will never cross. Miss and sir is a way of being polite.

I worked in a medium sized secondary and it took me 2 years to get names of colleagues sorted. And some I wouldn't have spoken to in that time.

Secondary school in northern England in the 1990s here. That was what we all called our teachers, so perfectly normal to me.
To me it's like police officers saying 'ma'am' or 'sir' to senior staff and kitchen staff saying 'chef'

I worked in a secondary school (state) all adult staff were called sir or ma'am. (SE England)

I was very grateful as I have a terrible memory for names. Certainly made my life easier.

Attended state secondary in the 70s/80s and teachers were sir or miss there.

Seems fairly usual for state comps.