AIBU to think the jabs won't help the economy?

[EuclidianGeometryFan]

To add to the debate on weight loss jabs and the economy, try this thought experiment:
Suppose everyone who is overweight gets the jabs, for as long as they want, and they all get slim and lose their appetites.
The NHS saves a fortune.
But the supermarkets lose a fortune, and the take-away shops and fast-food restaurants, and the pubs and corner-shops selling late-night drinks and chocolate, and the delivery drivers rushing pizzas to our doors.

Any big supermarket has whole aisles dedicated to crisps, fizzy drinks, sweets, cakes, ready-made fat-laden food. It probably takes up about 3/4 of the floor space. Will no-one buy all this?

Surely the loss to the economy in the food industry will be greater than the savings to the NHS?

Or is the thinking that we will still buy as much crap food, then get it home and half way through eating it think 'I don't fancy this now' and bin it?
Will we just be adding massively to the food waste issue?

I get that the government is trying to address a huge issue, but they need to consider all aspects, and accept that the right solutions for society won't necessarily boost the economy.

No, you know you're not but you're just continuing to be difficult.

It wasn't me who claimed that, Justeanbiscuits, so not sure if you've tagged the wrong poster there?

And IMO you were spot on about personal responsibility, @DamnitImTired, but it won't be popular among those who'd rather avoid taking it and prefer to stampede towards the latest magic pill

@DamnitImTired - why can't you understand that the manufacturer wants to do the trial? A study by Health Innovation Manchester and Lilly will examine whether being put on the drugs will reduce worklessness and the impact on NHS service use, and will take place in Greater Manchester. It is a trial to determine whether it will be useful or not. Why is this so difficult to understand?

Thank you.

it seems it’s quite hard to find MNers who would acknowledge that whilst obesity and unemployment may be linked it is uncomfortable to admit the way in which they are linked may be more down to personal choices rather than just some unlucky coincidence or big corporate scheme to snare us into poverty by the quality of the food it dishes out.

I would hazard a guess that the number persons who pulls themselves out of poverty and unemployment because they have taking a weight loss drug are very few and not enough to change any economy

Riddle me this. If healthy food is cheaper why do care homes do this.

https://forum.alzheimers.org.uk/threads/food-in-care-homes.30157/

I can fully understand it’s a trial.

we are not arguing about whether it’s a trial or not. It seems that a lot of people would like to blame their obesity on their poverty and I challenge that wholeheartedly.

@Puzzledandpissedoff do you also have the same views about contraception? Should we all be practicing abstinence?

@DamnitImTired

I was consuming 1700 calories a day - it should've been well into my deficit. I would eat clean, go to the gym and I'd only lose a pound a week.

On these jabs, while consuming less, I am dropping 3-4 times that!!! Obviously it's down to my hormones

What you put in your mouth to nourish you and your level of activity is completely within your control!

As noted in the article I linked upthread, it very often is not within people's control.

Poverty means less access to affordable healthy food.

For example living in an area nowhere near larger supermarkets, and only small convenience stores nearby (and not everyone can drive or can afford to drive).

Convenience stores often have more expensive food, limited stock, and often sell mainly less healthy processed food.

Then there's the housing issues. Limited cooking facilities or storage space (ruling out cost saving batch cooking, for example).

Obviously also there's the mental health impact of poverty. Comfort eating isn't "a weakness" - it's literal need for a small bit of comfort and often isn't easily controllable because environmental/social factor caused distress simply isn't just something that can just be "willed away". And chronic stress in itself, even when there's no over-eating or unhealthy eating, can cause weight gain. That's been reported in medical studies.

Separately, how is level of (physical) activity within the control of the many people waiting ages for NHS diagnoses and treatment (often extra delayed due to doctor fobbing off)? They have limited mobility and/or pain - preventing exercise.

So no it's often not within people's control. What's actually needed is government action to address the root causes. Which would be: addressing poverty, including a more supportive benefits system, more council housing, timely access to effective support (including NHS healthcare - physical and mental health), and job and training opportunities.

I'm not necessarily against offering people the weight loss drugs when appropriate. But not without also dealing with the root causes. Otherwise it's like giving people painkillers for a broken leg without fixing the leg.

I would hazard a guess that the number persons who pulls themselves out of poverty and unemployment because they have taking a weight loss drug are very few and not enough to change any economy

So would I, DamnitImTired, though I doubt we'll ever see impartial figures on the issue, but with the manufacturers running the trials I'm pretty confident tthey'll "discover" that their product works like a dream

Sorry, must have clocked quote on wrong post.

I presume though, like @DamnitImTired , you would remove NHS funding for treatment of alcoholics, drug addicts, smoking cessation etc etc?

@DamnitImTired you have argued a number of different lines throughout this thread and I have addressed them as you raised each point. You kept saying that the drugs would be freely available using Government money and that fat people would just take them like zombies. I have made the point that this is trial, it is testing a hypothesis and it is not Government funded. The trial is to find out if it will be a useful tool in combating obesity and getting those people who are obese and unemployed back to work.

If you want to challenge the fact, backed up by research undertaken by medical and other professionals, that poverty is a major cause factor in obesity (obviously it's not the only cause but it is a major one), then perhaps you should present your studies and evidence to back up your claim?

The last time I managed to lose weight, I was being a bridesmaid and lost 2 stone in 5 months in order to fit in the dress (which didn't come in larger sizes!). I spent 5 months eating 700-800 calories a day, mainly protein and veggies. You cannot imagine how miserable that was!!

Luckily, by chance, the reason for this was discovered, and I can now be treated, under the NHS.

I don't live in poverty, but there is no way I can afford over £100 a month for gym membership so I'm not surprised those in poverty can't. oh yes, the lovely GP said I could get exercise on prescription. During working hours only 🙄🙄🙄

Depends what it is, MargoLivebetter, but luckily it's hardly a choice between abstinence or relying on chemicals when less invasive choices are available

I presume though, like , you would remove NHS funding for treatment of alcoholics, drug addicts, smoking cessation etc etc?

Edited to add I certainly wouldn't advocate removing these wholesale, @JusteanBiscuits, but where there's a history of lack of engagement there may be a case for saying enough's enough

Those people are not unemployed because they are obese!

They are likely obese because of a multitude of other problems!!!!

You are looking for a diamond in the dirt by even suggesting that ozempic will assist the economy by opening up employment for those people. How many obese people do you think the UK has? The obesity problem is not going to be answered by a drug and their lack of employment is not going to be answered by a drug. I would say that the govt needs to look deeper but that would also be wrong. Individuals need to look deeper within themselves for the answers to their problems!

I keep hearing about how poor people have less access to good food. So. Eat. Less. And. Move. More. Nobody and definitely not those who are poor are being force fed cheap shit food that is bad for you!!!!

I remember when Ian Duncan Smith wanted to put the overweight unemployed on the Cambridge Diet

Long memory me!

@DamnitImTired and others who seem determined to believe that poverty and obesity and not closely linked: https://www.who.int/europe/news/item/23-05-2024-the-inequality-epidemic--low-income-teens-face-higher-risks-of-obesity--inactivity-and-poor-diet

These aren't adults in charge of their own destiny, making their own choices, these are children who are already stuck in the poverty and obesity trap. What do you advocate for them?

I live in Africa. The poor are not fat. The wealthy are fat because they have access to first world crap food!!!!!

The poor eat fruit vegetables and meat and walk to work and school.

the wealthy have access to public transport, cars, and frequent the latest western kfc Macdonalds that pops up.

those same poor people given the money would be fat. The difference is in the knowing what is good for you and what is not!

Just wanted to add an apology, @MargoLivebetter - I missed the edit window and the reply about contraception should have been for you

Another inconvenient truth relating to the poor elsewhere, @DamnitImTired ...

It is almost quite offensive to be equating obesity to lack of economic activity
I have had a weight problem all my life (morbidly obese at one point) and I have a full time active job and have worked all my adult life.

The numbers unable to work solely due to obesity is surely very low. Too low to make an impact.

If knowing what is good for you and what is not was the answer we would all be slim.

@DamnitImTired if you look at the huge amount of research that W.H.O has been doing into both poverty and obesity for decades now, you will see that the two are closely linked.

I ask again what your recommendations are for children already caught in the obesity and poverty trap?

Africa is a continent of 54 countries - I presume you are not speaking for all African countries when you say their poor eat fruit and vegetables and walk everywhere?