UK fertility rate drops by 18.8% in 12 years

[MidnightPatrol]

The UK has the fastest falling fertility rate in the G7.

2022 saw the lowest number of births for 20 years.

The current TFR is 1.49 births per woman.

What do you think the reason for this is, and what could be done to reverse the trend?

news.sky.com/story/amp/britains-fertility-rate-falling-faster-than-any-other-g7-country-with-austerity-thought-to-be-a-principal-factor-13232314

Lots of people not wanting to bring a child into this world aa it is.

Not an option for me now, but I'd struggle to see the logic with what they would have to live with

It’s all about men.

If I worked for the Government’s behavioural science “Nudge” unit, I’d target men in the late teens / early twenties to persuade them to want children before they are thirty, within a loving, respectful and equal relationship.

My plan would be to influence young men to find a partner, commit and settle down as young as possible, with clear messaging that this is a route to happiness, as well as social wellbeing.

Indicator : more committed couples having their first child before they turn 25

Tactics : all outlined in this thread, housing, childcare, women’s rights, respect for mothers and strong role models in popular culture, community support. Realistic expectations of parenting - not aspirational. Stop people overthinking it all (see also: influence of social media).

et voila.

@Imperfectionist were you going to include the valid choice not to have children at all in your education program?

How would you persuade them to want to do something that's totally contrary to happiness for a lot of (most?) people? At least women get hormones to make it more bearable.

Quite. I see that lesbians also don't feature in this masterplan.

I very much agree. There are far more women who are wanting to marry and start a family then there are men particularly in their 20/30s.

My thoughts are that decades ago if a man wanted regular sex, his best bet was to find a partner and settle down. Being a responsible man, working and supporting a family was a small price to pay for this
Nowadays because of the internet and dating apps, it'such easier for men to find regular sex without having to put in much effort...in fact they don't even need to have the chutzpah to chat up a woman in person anymore.

I mean
Yeah you could have adventures, lots of sex, plenty cash, plenty sleep, see your friends whenever you want, all round have a great time
Or
...
If you want kids great but if you don't it sounds like a horror show

A lot of this makes sense.

In the past a percentage of young men were a bit wild but fundamentally decent. Marrying and having children tended to settle them down and 'grow up'. I can think of a few men in my family who benefited from this social 'nudge' and grew into good husbands, fathers and contributers to society.

Of course the landscape has changed dramatically out there.

We need to bring some social nudge back - nothing as toxic as chronic shaming but a sort of Paddington Bear hard stare when people don't behave decently.

What when guys don't breed stare at them until they decide to do something totally against their own interests because you like ickle babies?

But this isn't true, according to the actual data. Globally, wherever educational standards for women increase, those women choose to have fewer children.

Sure, on an individual level you'll get some women who want to have children younger and can't find the right man, but this topic isn't about individuals, it's about populations.

At the population level, there aren't hordes of 20-something women desperately seeking sperm.

Yeah and re the "men used to need to swap babies for sex" post above wtf. A lot of women like sex and don't want babies. I feel bad for the women who don't enjoy sex but try empathy eh

I'm tired and conflating two threads so my post probably made more sense to me in my head 😂

But that's a lot of assumption right there. I actually detest 'ickle' 🤢 babies. It was undoubtedly my least favourite stage of parenting! Closely followed by the ragey toddler years. Give me sullen teenagers any day! 🙏

This. There are plenty of decent guys who would like to find a partner to settle down with but who do not want to be fathers. As is entirely their prerogative, as long as they are upfront about it from the outset of any new relationship.

@GrannyWeatherwaxsHatpin @MeowCatPleaseMeowBack

Back of the envelope policy planning 😉, I didn’t have time to flesh out a nudge plan for every demographic so just focused my plan on young men.

Please feel free to expand this idea to include and consider the needs and relevance of lesbians, people who know from age 20 that they don’t want children at all, and all other distinct groups!

But I maintain, IMHO, that men are the most critical group to target and influence. Starting age 18 at minimum.

It's also bollocks, too. I don't know where people get these ideas that in the mythical past the only time people had sex was within marriages and to procreate. Especially men!

But I maintain, IMHO, that men are the most critical group to target and influence. Starting age 18 at minimum.

You maintain this, @Imperfectionist, even though the evidence says it's actually women who are driving the low birth rates?

Why do you want to increase the birth rate anyway?

God it's really nice not having kids

Vive the decline of human population numbers

My plan would be to influence young men to find a partner, commit and settle down as young as possible, with clear messaging that this is a route to happiness, as well as social wellbeing.
Indicator : more committed couples having their first child before they turn 25

I mean this is all well and good but most couples under 25 don't have secure housing, don't work in well-paid jobs, and don't have a ton of savings. The absence of these things, whilst not determinative of happiness, makes happiness more difficult. Add an incredibly expensive tiny human being or 3 into the mix, and bam - instant poverty and stress.

So what you're essentially saying is that you want to tell people that having children before 25 is the route to happiness, knowing it isn't true, and so gaslight UK citizens into increasing the fertility rate?

(I realise you've said improving housing is something you'd do alongside this but that doesn't solve the absence of well-paid job and savings issue.)

Absolutely, I think there's a lot of fear of what are children will be facing in their future.

We need to bring some social nudge back - nothing as toxic as chronic shaming but a sort of Paddington Bear hard stare when people don't behave decently.

I absolutely loathe the "Paddington Bear hard stare" thing MN is so obsessed with, but suggesting that society starts heavily judging everyone who hasn't had the "decency" to "behave property" and have babies is... an idea.

I mean, you'll end up judging people who can't have kids and desperately want them, of course, but don't let that get in the way of a good time.

Amen.

Christ, if some bloke barely past bum fluff stage had graduated from Imperfectionist's operant conditioning programme and come after my 21-year-old uterus, he'd have had his balls handed back to him on a plate.

I have no interest in expanding a ridiculous idea. Put it in the bin.

I really don’t want to live in a society where having kids is seen as doing the decent thing for the economy. Shades of Nazi Germany.

@fitzwilliamdarcy you’re absolutely right and I briefly alluded to essential importance of resolving these things in my final para “tactics”

Also need to manage Mumsnet expectations as some posters seem to expect ideas are fully thought out, costed up, data and evidence based and inclusive! Sorry to disappoint, I’m just an interested observer, joining in a discussion I care about. Leave the specifics to the experts (I wonder if anyone gets inspiration from us though)

@MrTwatchester yeah, these are just my ideas as a concerned citizen and I make no claim of being an expert with data to back up my ideas! As for why, I love humans and would hate to see us disappear. That is as depressing as watching Threads. In fact I don’t know if life would be worth living in that knowledge. I’m more of a work towards a better future, than a live for today person. But that’s just me!

Deciding not to have a baby because you can't find a decent man and/or can't afford it is really depressing. Most people have some sort of biological urge to procreate....this being dampened down because life is so shit isn't much of a step forward for society.