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UK fertility rate drops by 18.8% in 12 years

482 replies

MidnightPatrol · 13/10/2024 20:35

The UK has the fastest falling fertility rate in the G7.

2022 saw the lowest number of births for 20 years.

The current TFR is 1.49 births per woman.

What do you think the reason for this is, and what could be done to reverse the trend?

news.sky.com/story/amp/britains-fertility-rate-falling-faster-than-any-other-g7-country-with-austerity-thought-to-be-a-principal-factor-13232314

OP posts:
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GretchenWienersHair · 14/10/2024 17:13

Childcare costs. Housing costs. Poor healthcare. The list goes on…

GretchenWienersHair · 14/10/2024 17:16

pinkdelight · 13/10/2024 20:49

I don't know why this is being touted as a bad thing. In coverage about all the issues with aging population, they talk about this being a bottleneck that will ease off as the birth rate goes down, so why is anyone trying to keep it up? Especially as the actually population hasn't declined due to net migration. It doesn't make sense to want to keep pumping babies out at the same rate, as though British born babies are needed to sustain at the high levels of the last couple of generations when all was that bit better.

It will certainly be a problem in 30 years time when we haven’t got enough doctors or nurses to look after us all!

IcedPurple · 14/10/2024 17:23

WasteOfPaint · 13/10/2024 21:15

UK may be at the extreme end but this trend is happening across the developed world. It's happening in countries with cheap childcare lots of government support for families. Several countries have tried offering specific incentives to have children, and it's made very little difference.

I don't think it is at the extreme end. It's about average for Europe. Italy and Spain, despite being supposedly so family friendly, have lower birth rates. Fertility has been extremely low in Eastern Europe for years now. SK and Japan also have extremely low birth rates, to the point where their populations are shrinking.

OptimismvsRealism · 14/10/2024 17:25

BruFord · 14/10/2024 16:32

@OptimismvsRealism Being childfree is definitely a valid and often positive choice.

I’m taken aback at your description of how adult children treat their parents though:

They leave and call you once a year to ask for money
-They put you in a home and you cry for your husband who died many years ago
-you die

Is that how you treat your parents?!

Edited

Haha no my mum is definitely living her best stki life (which I approve of)

Appledrop · 14/10/2024 17:25

I only had one anyway, but if I were considering having a child today, I wouldn't have bothered. Bad enough the cost of housing, wages, etc but the thought of them going to school where they teach kids that they can change sex is a big fat no from me.

IVFmumoftwo · 14/10/2024 17:26

IcedPurple · 14/10/2024 17:23

I don't think it is at the extreme end. It's about average for Europe. Italy and Spain, despite being supposedly so family friendly, have lower birth rates. Fertility has been extremely low in Eastern Europe for years now. SK and Japan also have extremely low birth rates, to the point where their populations are shrinking.

I think in Spain it is common to only have one child and have that child very late.

IcedPurple · 14/10/2024 17:33

IVFmumoftwo · 14/10/2024 17:26

I think in Spain it is common to only have one child and have that child very late.

In Italy too. Having one child is pretty much the norm. It doesn't really go along with the Dolmio ad idea of big extended families sitting around the table, but that's what the statistics show.

Everleybear · 14/10/2024 17:35

I really don't know what the solution to this is but the problem always seems to be to put the blame on women. Women are having too fewer babies, leaving them too late or don't want to have them. No one seems to mention there's plenty men who don't want children or don't want to have them earlier either.

I'm uncomfortable with the idea that people should be guilt tripped or encouraged into having children or bigger families when they don't want this or have other reasons they may not want children or more than one.

Being a parent is so hard, our society isn't designed to support parents and especially mothers. You only need to read posts on here telling mums on maternity leave that they should do all the house work, deal with all the night wakings, not leave your baby with anyone no matter how exhausted or overwhelmed you are because it's more important that your husband/partner needs all his rest for working plus downtime when he gets home. Housing is so expensive as is child care it's no wonder no one wants do it more than once or even do it at all. We're then expected to intensely parent our children well into adulthood, not let them out our sight, not let them outside to play, take them to a million activities a week, drive them everywhere while never meeting our own needs.

I love my child but I can absolutely understand the reason for the fertility decline and people deciding children isn't for them.

BruFord · 14/10/2024 17:35

OptimismvsRealism · 14/10/2024 17:25

Haha no my mum is definitely living her best stki life (which I approve of)

@OptimismvsRealism So why did you suggest that parents get ignored and used by their adult children?

We don’t do ourselves, I think few people do!

BruFord · 14/10/2024 17:40

GretchenWienersHair · 14/10/2024 17:16

It will certainly be a problem in 30 years time when we haven’t got enough doctors or nurses to look after us all!

@GretchenWienersHair I genuinely think that euthanasia may seem like a decent option for some of us as we age. I certainly have no desire to be living in a society dominated by older people and struggling to get the services I need.

OptimismvsRealism · 14/10/2024 17:47

BruFord · 14/10/2024 17:35

@OptimismvsRealism So why did you suggest that parents get ignored and used by their adult children?

We don’t do ourselves, I think few people do!

Most people I know seem to resent their parents and don't see much of them. Maybe I'd be an exception and hotly in demand by my adult offspring but given my lack of appetite for potato prints and potty training I doubt they'd feel they owed me much.

Werecat · 14/10/2024 17:49

I’d have liked a third, but the second broke me physically. And the uk isn’t designed for families of five and it’d cost too much.

BruFord · 14/10/2024 17:52

OptimismvsRealism · 14/10/2024 17:47

Most people I know seem to resent their parents and don't see much of them. Maybe I'd be an exception and hotly in demand by my adult offspring but given my lack of appetite for potato prints and potty training I doubt they'd feel they owed me much.

@OptimismvsRealism 🤣 It’s definitely not for everyone!

Fingers crossed, I get on with my two (19 &16) so far.

GretchenWienersHair · 14/10/2024 17:53

BruFord · 14/10/2024 17:40

@GretchenWienersHair I genuinely think that euthanasia may seem like a decent option for some of us as we age. I certainly have no desire to be living in a society dominated by older people and struggling to get the services I need.

Eesh. I mean I don’t know how I’ll feel about in 50 years time, but right now the thought of that being the solution to a healthcare problem terrifies me.

User37482 · 14/10/2024 17:57

I’m not convinced it’s the cost of living stopping people from having kids. I think it can stop you from having additional kids certainly. The people I know who don’t want them are actually quite financially comfortable (probably because they don’t have kids but are definitely in a position to have some).

I also think people who cite environmental concerns etc aren’t being completely honest. I think they genuinely don’t want any. On mumsnet you often see women talking about this drive to have children (not me, never had it, but I do have a kid).

BruFord · 14/10/2024 17:57

@GretchenWienersHair It’s not nice, is it. That’s why we need to focus on technology now to replace younger humans. It’s hard enough finding a dentist nowadays, for example, I can’t imagine what it’ll be like when a larger percentage of the population is elderly! We need dental robots. 😂

MrTwatchester · 14/10/2024 18:01

User37482 · 14/10/2024 17:57

I’m not convinced it’s the cost of living stopping people from having kids. I think it can stop you from having additional kids certainly. The people I know who don’t want them are actually quite financially comfortable (probably because they don’t have kids but are definitely in a position to have some).

I also think people who cite environmental concerns etc aren’t being completely honest. I think they genuinely don’t want any. On mumsnet you often see women talking about this drive to have children (not me, never had it, but I do have a kid).

I have environmental concerns, so I'm glad the birth rate is dropping, but they are not the reason I am childfree. As you say, it's because I've never wanted children, not so much as a twitch of an ovary.

I do think some people probably consider environmental concerns if they're more on the fence about children, or not sure how many to have. It's a valid factor—I'd be scared and sad for my children, if I had them, looking at the ecological collapse happening in real time now.

WasteOfPaint · 14/10/2024 18:03

@IcedPurple True. The same pattern can be seen across pretty much all developed countries, regardless of significant variation in the cultures of those countries as well as in economic policy and the support provided to parents etc. Even in less developed parts of the world it's declining, obviously from a higher starting point. Fundamentally, when given the choice, people simply do not want to have many (sometimes any) children.

SquirrelSoShiny · 14/10/2024 19:00

BruFord · 14/10/2024 17:40

@GretchenWienersHair I genuinely think that euthanasia may seem like a decent option for some of us as we age. I certainly have no desire to be living in a society dominated by older people and struggling to get the services I need.

I think that's what Western governments are banking on to be honest. That euthanasia will be actively promoted as the socially responsible choice.

It's hard to even argue against it. No one is 'owed' a highly medicalised existence into their late eighties only to be bedridden and demented attacking hospital staff. I certainly don't want that to be my future. I'm sorry if that sounds harsh but if you've been on an NHS ward recently that's the reality and unless social care is properly funded it's not going to change.

Bangwam1 · 14/10/2024 19:15

Natural consequence of the young generation being left to rot in their parents houses and house shares.

Amongst the rest of the costs.

It’s a double whammy too, we have a new wave of feminism and a crop of the weakest, most repugnant and violent men I have ever seen. No smart girl wants to reproduce, destroy her life, receive inadequate maternity care (frankly obscenely bad) just to be thrown away by a man boy now 🤷‍♀️ I made the mistake once and I don’t intend on doing that to myself again either.

JHound · 14/10/2024 19:16

User37482 · 14/10/2024 17:57

I’m not convinced it’s the cost of living stopping people from having kids. I think it can stop you from having additional kids certainly. The people I know who don’t want them are actually quite financially comfortable (probably because they don’t have kids but are definitely in a position to have some).

I also think people who cite environmental concerns etc aren’t being completely honest. I think they genuinely don’t want any. On mumsnet you often see women talking about this drive to have children (not me, never had it, but I do have a kid).

It’s interesting about the drive to have a kid. I wanted one and assume I had that “drive” but if I am honest it cannot have been that strong as if it was I would have had one. Just settled for any man that wanted me (even if I loathed him) just to have kids. I have female friends that did that because their desire for motherhood took over their minds but I always was more relaxed not having kids than having them in a situation I was not happy in. So evidently like you in reality I never had that drive really.

RustyandDusty · 14/10/2024 19:17

And there is alot of pressure to have kids and more than 1 in some parts of society

Bangwam1 · 14/10/2024 19:17

Just wait until the young properly catch on to the fact that no babies = no pension or society for themselves.

It’s almost like they’ll wonder why they are bothering to pay in at all currently. Poor greedy boomers and landlords, damn shame.

PiggleToes · 14/10/2024 19:18

Housing, cost of childcare, and lack of community. The capitalist nuclear family model is an absolute disaster for raising human babies.

RustyandDusty · 14/10/2024 19:21

Bangwam1 · 14/10/2024 19:15

Natural consequence of the young generation being left to rot in their parents houses and house shares.

Amongst the rest of the costs.

It’s a double whammy too, we have a new wave of feminism and a crop of the weakest, most repugnant and violent men I have ever seen. No smart girl wants to reproduce, destroy her life, receive inadequate maternity care (frankly obscenely bad) just to be thrown away by a man boy now 🤷‍♀️ I made the mistake once and I don’t intend on doing that to myself again either.

Hear hear. Women are screwed royally

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