Cheshire Police are an incompetent bunch of useless bastards

[GossIsAGit]

After Sally Clark

They should have remembered that If a doctor of medicine tells you that a coincidence is so unlikely it must mean a woman has been killing babies then maybe you should consult a statistician and actually listen.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/oct/10/lucy-letby-police-cps-handling-case-raises-new-concerns-about-convictions?CMP=ShareiOSAppOther

Oof. That press conference was a savage indictment of both the medical practice and legal process in this case.

I've posted before about how my interest was piqued by this case. How the language used by the professionals in court was very resonant to my own experience with experts, during an adjacent, though not as serious situation 30 years ago. The sinking feeling I got when I heard the dramatic assertion of violent injury to the liver sent me back to my pre-internet "research" days.

Five minutes of analysis of proposed mechanisms of injury in relation to size of baby and the fact that all this was allegedly done covertly in a busy neo-natal unit raised so many red flags I could have circled the globe with them.

If the original medical evidence is so blatantly wrong, and 14 international experts in the relevant fields working pro-bono are publicly stating as much, our due process has gone very, very wrong.

Hopefully this will lead to some sort if closure for all concerned. I suppose only time will tell.

I think the most telling thing was the assertion that much more investigation should have been done before this case got anywhere near a court, and that Mr Evans inserting himself into proceedings was a large part of the problem. I forsee plenty of bluster, denial and buck passing for a good while yet.

It was magnificent. Congratulations to all involved.
It feels like the grown ups are back in the room.

He didn’t disappoint.

Where did you hear that about Dr Stephen Brearey? Yes there was the liver injury and at least two throat injuries. Bit of a coincidence one of the mothers came in to see her baby screaming with blood around his mouth and who else was there-Lucy Letby. Maybe Stephen Brearey had done it and then disappeared into a puff of smoke to scapegoat her though🙄

I honestly can’t remember where I first heard it but it’s been public knowledge for several months and was mentioned in the press conference today.

This is so true. Miscarriages of justice happens all the time and people are prosecuted all the time by police and lawyers who know deep down they probably aren't guilty but do everything they can to.prove otherwise.

I often hear voiced a question of defence lawyers- "how can you defend people your know are probably guilty?"but no-one ever asks prosecution lawyers 'How can you prosecute someone you know is probably innocent?" I believe the latter happens quite a lot more often than we like to admit

Cases in court are all about what you can do to get a guilty verdict not what you can do to discover the truth of what happened. Given that lots of innocent people will end up in jail . Obviously not a majority but a sizeable minority in my view anyway.

Just been poking around Reddit (I know, I know) but wanted to ask about something that appears to be touted as proven fact that made me go 🤔 which is that Lucy Letby removed Baby As NG tube without permission resulting in death. I've googled those search parameters but can't find that precise scenario. Going to dig a bit more but wondered if anyone else has come across this assertion, and where it's been extrapolated from if so ?

I haven’t heard that one. It’s down as air embolism. That just sounds like a wild invention - wild even for Dewi Evans.

She really really didn't!

I think they must be thinking of the long peripheral line which was put in an hour before he collapsed. The registrar (not a nurse) immediately pulled it out because there was a possibility it was inserted too close to the heart.

I mean, removing an NG tube wouldn't harm anyone anyway. He wasn't even on one. Pure fantasy.

The Lucyletby sub bans anyone who questions her guilt (formal policy). The Lucyletbytrials sub is quite civilised with some good regular posters.

Thanks both - I thought it was utter bollocks. There is so much inaccurate stuff out there stated as fact I can see why people who haven't looked beyond sensationalist headlines are convinced of her guilt. The Internet is the very definition of both a blessing and a curse.

Yes - it shows a complete misunderstanding of that case because the 4+ hours getting a line into the baby was part of the problem - and Letby and her colleague were hurrying to get fluids &c into him through it because he had gone without for so long. So no NG tube!

I’ve had a good look. The LucyLetby sub on Reddit is quite fascinating if you’re interested in the dark side of the female mind - even if you can’t be certain who’s female.

In my opinion the lack of an adequate defence is yet another reason why the conviction is unsafe. I also think that her defence team should come under scrutiny for their professional standards and competency. They either threw her under a bus or they were incompetent which was it? Either way there should be a retrial.

It has become very clear that many medical professionals were concerned by what they were hearing during the trial. It would not have been at all difficult for the defence to produce credible expert witnesses. They didnt. Something stinks here.

If she can be convicted on the "expert" testimony of an unregistered, unqualified ambulance chaser . She at least deserves a retrial presenting evidence from the panel of world renowned experts who have spoken out. Presumally they would be happy to testify. Lets hear what the charlatan Dewy Evans has to say when actually challenged

Given that the press conference this week highlighted gross failures of care which ultimately led to the deaths, I think that there is a huge amount of arse covering going on by the doctors rather than admitting to their own and systemic failures. These medics continue to practice and if they will not acknowledge their own failings, present a greater on going danger to patients than Letby ever did.

The case against Goss:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rRudI8fwNi0

That's a very interesting video. I can see the logic in wanting Hall to rebut each case in order, as it would give the jury time and opportunity to get both opinions down fresh at the same time, in order to compare them, especially due to the number of cases and complexity of evidence. And I can understand the defence feeling kind of defeated and not calling Hall after the whole prosecution case, as chances are we'd have seen "jury fatigue" come into play. The video somewhat answers the question of "why no defence witness".

All very interesting stuff.

Thank you for posting it.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2025/mar/13/police-start-manslaughter-inquiry-into-senior-individuals-at-letby-hospital

Also interesting. This is going to get extremely complicated .....

It sounds like the police wish to make a statement and I wonder if this is pressure to try and reinforce the conviction that the police have of Lucy's guilt as there is a bit of panic in the senior ranks given the amount of evidence coming out in support of Lucy.

To start to bring about a serious charge probe into figures that are no doubt engaging in the Thirlwall enquiry surely undermines the enquiry and any future evidence is going to be tainted by the fact there is a parallel police probe. It would make sense to suspend the enquiry until the end of the police enquiry as surely the results of the police enquiry impacts the Thirlwall enquiry. It's a shit show.

Given the amount of contradictory evidence shown in the Letby trial I would think it hard for the CPS to gain a. conviction with such serious charges as you could say the management were right to not immediately go to the police given the now evident ambiguity of evidence and instead rely on internal investigation.

It sounds like the police are doubling down on this as they want to pressure any criminal case review in light of new interpretations of medical evidence. The police don't want to be seen wrong in this in future.

It’s hard to know exactly what they are playing at. I hope it will backfire. They are perhaps afraid of public statements by more of the managers arguing LL’s innocence. Perhaps it is spite towards Karen Rees who has given an interview casting doubt on the verdict.

All evidence has been taken at Thirlwall I think.

It’s still hard to know what the defence tactics were. The lack of opportunity should have created reasonable doubt so I don’t know if the defence felt defeated or possibly overconfident after the criticism of Evans came to light. They did try for ‘no case to answer’ after all.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2025/jul/14/former-senior-coroners-officer-says-lucy-letby-has-suffered-miscarriage-of-justice

The article says Stephanie Davies resigned before she was sacked after releasing details of a diffeent case to the press. It also says she is neither medically or legally trained. This probably undermines her position somewhat.

There's rather more to it than that.

The article says Cheshire Police say Davies is neither medically or legally trained. She certainly seems well qualified in forensics

“ I first became a Coroner's Officer in February 2006 when I was employed by
Thames Valley Police and worked to the direction of the Buckinghamshire
Coroner, Mr. Richard Hulett. This was following successful completion of three
academic degrees (BSc Hons Applied Psychology, MSc Forensic Behavioural
Science and BSc Hons Forensic Science). I had also completed two professional courses in Bloodstain Pattern Analysis, as well as work experience with the NYPD, and Coroner's Offices in Cheshire and Stockport.”

and that’s just the start