Friends falling out over 'freebirth'

[Ambienteamber]

AIBU to think my friend is being extremely unreasonable regarding putting pressure on me to shun our mutual friend for having a freebirth?
We've all been friends since school. In our late 30s now.
We will call them friend A and B
Friend A decided to have an unassisted birth with her 4th child after having lost her 3rd child during a hospital birth. (This was not due to the hospital care but was just a tragic unpreventable incident)
She is a trained doula herself. She just wanted it to be her abd her husband this time, at home, with no midwives.
Now it's not what I would do. Altho I have tried to have homebirths with all 3 of mine they were supported by NHS midwives, unfortunately I ended up in hospital all 3 times due to issues.
But I think that it's not really any of my business what friend A chooses to do. So I said nothing but positive supportive things to her.
Now friend B is absolutely furious and has been from the outset, at the decisions of friend A. I understand that she works as a nurse and so sees a lot of medical emergencies so is quite anxious about that type of thing. She also almost died during the delivery of her child and credits being in the hospital with saving her and babies life.
So I have sympathy with her not being on board with the choices of friend A but I think she's now becoming completely unreasonable about it.
Friend As freebirth has come and gone many months ago and went smoothly. Mother and baby totally fine.
So in my mind that's the end of that.
I sent a card and flowers with congratulations etc I've been to meet the bubba.
Friend B is refusing to talk to friend A. And she's now harassing me about my 'support' of friend A.
AIBU to think this is absolutely ridiculous?
In my view it is not up to me how another woman births her baby and I'm not going to be bullying anyone about it. Friend A had her reasons for making her choices abd they are as good as anyone's reasons. She's been through a lot.
I feel stick in the middle but actually I'm quite angry at friend Bs 'campaign' about this as I feel she's being very immature and forcing me to choose sides in an argument I want no part of.
I've tried to be as tactful as possible because I sympathise with the position of both these friends. But I'm getting more and more annoyed with friend Bs 'obsession' with this issue. We've met up a few times and she always directs the conversation to being about friend As birth and tries to get me to express a negative opinion.
I'm just sick of it and I feel quite close to saying something not so tactful to her..
What should I do here? What can I say to her? I feel like some part of her does actually want me to blow up about it, because she wants to be able to be openly furious with both of us.

It's obviously about a lot more than the free birth event as you say it's been and gone and B is still upset.

It's about the trauma B suffered during her birth that nearly killed her and seeing A as being irresponsible even though it worked out fine by luck.

There are lots of people who survive silly choices, only by luck, then promote others to make silly choices too through survivors bias. Only the people they influence dont always get lucky or survive. I think this is what B is angry about. She has likely seen free birthing disasters and is angry your friend chose one, but also that she will be promoting it despite it being unsafe.

Obviously no one should be bullying a new mum that is unkind but it depends how A has been about it. Does she just not talk about it or is she all preachy about it and promote it as a safe choice to other mums this enraging B?

Friend B is unreasonable and ridiculous.

If A asked me I certainly wouldn’t have been saying positive and supportive things about her decision (I think it’s completely irresponsible, however tragic the backstory and reasons why), but it is her decision, her baby and her body so unless friend B was asked about it it’s not her business to express an opinion or keep going on about it. And it’s certainly not her business to be trying to recruit others to some kind of bizarre witch hunt, months after the event.

I think it’s time to tell friend B that A and her birth, and in fact the whole topic of birth, is not something you’re willing to discuss again. And then create some considerable distance between you, lest you ever make a choice she disagrees with!

A is not the preachy type at all. She is quite alternative, she homeschooling her kids (but does have teaching qualifications and runs home Ed groups so they are smart kids) But she's definitely not the type to force it on others. She obviously advertises her services as a doula but has always worked alongside NHS midwives. I don't think she's ever worked at a freebirth.. other than her own.
I mean I only know she did this as I'm her friend. She doesn't advertise it publicly.
I have asked her about it and she's very happy with her choice but it's not like she brought it up to try and convince me iyswim.. she's only spoken about it when I've asked.
I really think B is taking this a bit far. It's fine to have different ideas but she's always known how alternative A was. As first 2 children were homebirths, attended by midwives, and she did grumble about that choice but she was still supportive after the fact.
And B knows what A went through with losing her baby son.
I personally think she should have a bit more compassion here.
So far I have not voiced this to B I just change the subject. But it's really grating on me. It's like B won't let it go until I make some statement about it.

Although it's not a decision I would make, it's her body her choice and your other friend should wind her neck in. Usually the decision to freebirth comes from a place of trauma.

A friend of mine freebirthed, she was an NHS midwife and was so horrified by the things she witnessed at work that she decided not to go anywhere near the hospital. I had a traumatic first birth which was a cascade of interventions with health care professionals who had little concept of consent or bodily autonomy, so I have nothing but compassion for women who are so traumatised by thier experiences that they decide to go it alone.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion but that doesn't mean their opinion matters.

B can think what they want about A. It's got nothing to do with them and they certainly don't have a right to try to turn others against A. They're acting as though they have as much right to a say on As birth as A does. You don't get that level of control over other people's lives.

While she's entitled to her opinion and even the right to voice it, it's ultimately nothing to do with her how another woman chooses to birth her baby, regardless of whether she agrees with her choices. The only person in my opinion who's support is needed is her husband/partners.

I'm sure given friend A is a doula she would have transferred in to hospital if she thought she needed to.
Friend B needs to let it go and move on.

I do understand (and share) B's view, but you are right, it is wrong of her to start a campaign about it. Interesting that they have both suffered birth trauma but have very different opinions on what makes them feel safe now.

I think you have to be honest with B: "I agree with you about A's choice, but I'm not going to punish her for it. I know this is very painful, personal territory - for both of you - and I'm happy to listen to your feelings about this, but I am still going to be As friend".

Freebirthing is a hot issue in maternity services, and I know some midwives have been put in a very difficult position by birthing women. B may have heard those stories too.

She doesn’t get to dictate who you are friends with!

B sounds unhinged and awful. If most of us were to fall out with a friend every time they did something unsafe or risky we'd have no friends left. Goodbye smokers, bungee jumpers, casual sex enthusiasts, off piste skiiers, the list goes on.

If you can face her I think you need to tell B that A and her life choices are no longer to be brought up between you. I wouldn't be investing too much into your friendship with B either as you could end up on the chopping block if you make a life or parenting decision that doesn't meet her standards.

Regardless of the situation, other people don’t get to decide who you are friends with.

She's not usually like this. I really like her and did not want to fall out with her, but I just think she's being so wrong here. And she keeps trying to force the issue.
I understand it's hard for her but you'd think that would give her more compassion for A not less.
I am going to have to straight up tell her I don't agree with how she is handling this.
I thought it might just blow over by itself but she's still not contacted A at all and has been bringing it up with me during every interaction we have.

Both women are acting out if trauma here, so neither wil be able to see eachother's point of view, as they have reacted to similar events in opposing ways.

You need to tell B that it's completely her decision if she discontinues her friendship with A, but that you are not going to, and that you don't think its helping anyone for B to keep talking about A to you. Tell her you will not be put in the middle like this, so from now on, no more talk about A. If B decides to fall out with you over it, that's unfortunate, but you can't let her dictate to you.

I would never encourage anyone to have an unattended birth and I do think it is generally a rather irresponsible thing to do. However, it is A's choice and she's broken no laws as far as I'm aware. I would probably have expressed my concerns pretty firmly at the time, but by this stage I would let it go, provided A wasn't going round trying to persuade other people to do the same.
Lots of people do things we wouldn't do ourselves,or make choices that we think are poor. If we cut off everyone in that category I suspect most of us wouldn't actually have many friends left. I guess we all draw the line differently regarding what is enough to end a friendship over, but even if it is a hill to die on for B, it's rather immature of her to try to make you take sides. It is perfectly possible to disagree with someone and still maintain a friendship without actually supporting their decision. If B no longer wants a relationship with A then that's her business, but she doesn't get to dictate who you can be friends with. You would hope that they could both respect your decision to be friends with both of them even if they are no longer friends with each other.

I suspect as PP's have, that this is really all about B's traumatic experiences and she's using A's choices as device to rant and rave about it and let it out... but its not helping her in the long run and it's neither B's nor your 'fault' nor problem to solve.

Unfortunately I suspect telling her this won't go down well at all, so I'd just have to make it clear to her that I have made the choice to remain friends with A and don't want to hear any more about her decision from B... and see what happens. It may unfortunately be that B decides she can't maintain a friendship with you, which will be to her detriment but theres nothing you can do about that.

Either she comes to her senses and realises she's directing her ire in entirely the wrong places, or she doesn't.

MrsAvocet she has broken no laws, but I think her dh has.

"We've met up a few times and she always directs the conversation to being about friend As birth and tries to get me to express a negative opinion. I'm just sick of it and I feel quite close to saying something not so tactful to her.. What should I do here? What can I say to her? I feel like some part of her does actually want me to blow up about it, because she wants to be able to be openly furious with both of us."

How do you arrange to meet? Text? Phone? I'd be inclined to say during the arranging that she has made you completely aware of her feelings on A, and that you feel no more needs to be said; and that if she does raise the topic, you'll be leaving. Yes, she'll have a go at you for that <shrugs>, but then she'll be having a go at you for something you've done, not something someone else has done IYSWIM. Much easier to deal with.

"I feel she's being very immature and forcing me to choose sides in an argument I want no part of."

If she wants to have a go at A, she can do so without involving you! And I'd be telling her so. And if she wants to force you to pick a side - you're picking the side that isn't harassing you.

While I would never give birth in this way myself, women (so long as they have capacity) have the right to refuse medical care and this right needs to be respected by everyone around them. I would be deeply uncomfortable with friend B's position, because it seems to me that what she is essentially saying is that she doesn't think friend A did have the right to refuse a certain type of medical care for her and her baby - basically, she's denying friend A's medical autonomy. This makes me all the more uncomfortable because one of the common features of almost all the maternity care scandals that have come to light to date (and which seems to pervade maternity care in this country) is trampling on women's bodily autonomy and not listening to them.

Friend B sounds very controlling.

Trying to control someone's birthing choices, now trying to control who you are friends with.

If the friendship is important to you I would tell her in no uncertain terms that this topic is off limits. If it's not, then I would stay away.

B has every right to think that A has been immensely irresponsible and selfish and to want her to stop promoting the choice she made as any way sensible. I don't blame her for falling out with A herself. But she's unreasonable to expect you to do that same.

Like a pp is ban the topic.

B I know you don’t like her choices but they are hers I don’t wish to talk about this anymore. (If you want maybe mention you know how hard she had it so she was probably very scared for friend but babies here now safe and sound and that’s what matters not how)

Was is possibly dangerous. Sure. No more dangerous than women that go into labour and just don’t make it either. In fact probably slightly safer than the side of a road in a panic. And the pessimist side. She lost her last baby, maybe even a tiny part of her felt that if she might lose another she would rather just be at home with her husband. More like no medical people trying to come and grab at her baby. Thankfully baby was perfectly fine yay.

Im all for womens rights to birth how they want. Drugs or no drugs. Upside down, on a trampoline or in a pool. Hospital, home or in a fucking forest. It’s your birth. You just have to be willing to accept any of the consequences.

How? Unless he’s actually provided medical care he’s not done anything illegal in simply being present at a free birth.

"It's like B won't let it go until I make some statement about it."

So make a statement about it.
It was As choice and her right to nake it. They are both fine. Why do you need me to criticise A?

Friend B is in the wrong.

Personally, I would deal with B by being honest. I would say something like, "Can I just stop you there. I think it's only fair to tell you that I actually don't care about this. I'm not interested in A's birth. I think you should let it go."

I am blunt at times but never rude or aggressive. You're not obliged to be the recipient of her self-appointed outrage over this. It's none of her business.

What laws has her husband broken?