Friends falling out over 'freebirth'

[Ambienteamber]

AIBU to think my friend is being extremely unreasonable regarding putting pressure on me to shun our mutual friend for having a freebirth?
We've all been friends since school. In our late 30s now.
We will call them friend A and B
Friend A decided to have an unassisted birth with her 4th child after having lost her 3rd child during a hospital birth. (This was not due to the hospital care but was just a tragic unpreventable incident)
She is a trained doula herself. She just wanted it to be her abd her husband this time, at home, with no midwives.
Now it's not what I would do. Altho I have tried to have homebirths with all 3 of mine they were supported by NHS midwives, unfortunately I ended up in hospital all 3 times due to issues.
But I think that it's not really any of my business what friend A chooses to do. So I said nothing but positive supportive things to her.
Now friend B is absolutely furious and has been from the outset, at the decisions of friend A. I understand that she works as a nurse and so sees a lot of medical emergencies so is quite anxious about that type of thing. She also almost died during the delivery of her child and credits being in the hospital with saving her and babies life.
So I have sympathy with her not being on board with the choices of friend A but I think she's now becoming completely unreasonable about it.
Friend As freebirth has come and gone many months ago and went smoothly. Mother and baby totally fine.
So in my mind that's the end of that.
I sent a card and flowers with congratulations etc I've been to meet the bubba.
Friend B is refusing to talk to friend A. And she's now harassing me about my 'support' of friend A.
AIBU to think this is absolutely ridiculous?
In my view it is not up to me how another woman births her baby and I'm not going to be bullying anyone about it. Friend A had her reasons for making her choices abd they are as good as anyone's reasons. She's been through a lot.
I feel stick in the middle but actually I'm quite angry at friend Bs 'campaign' about this as I feel she's being very immature and forcing me to choose sides in an argument I want no part of.
I've tried to be as tactful as possible because I sympathise with the position of both these friends. But I'm getting more and more annoyed with friend Bs 'obsession' with this issue. We've met up a few times and she always directs the conversation to being about friend As birth and tries to get me to express a negative opinion.
I'm just sick of it and I feel quite close to saying something not so tactful to her..
What should I do here? What can I say to her? I feel like some part of her does actually want me to blow up about it, because she wants to be able to be openly furious with both of us.

B is entitled to her opinion. But she is in no way entitled to control who you are friends with. I'd be telling her firmly that I was not going to discuss A's birth, or my friendship with A again.

I agree that it sounds like B has a lot of trauma. But A lost her third child so I imagine also has a considerable amount of trauma herself. No good will come from the two of them discussing this, or from B continuing to rant to OP about it.

I was thinking along the same lines. She clearly thinks she's entitled to a say in other people's decisions and actions. Controlling people often view being disagreed with, even mildly, as a personal attack that they have to fight their corner for. That you haven't deferred to them causes genuine offence.

She sounds a bit overbearing anyway.

I think Friend B could do with some counselling as she obviously has some unresolved issues from her experience of childbirth. I would be tempted to say that it’s all in the past and you no longer wish to discuss it, if B can’t accept that then you don’t feel able to continue the friendship. She can’t dictate to you like this.

I was a home birth with my dad and the family Labrador in attendance, my 13 month old sister asleep in the next room. Apparently the dog was more useful than my dad.

If B wants you to make a statement on the situation, how about this.

”It’s none of our business how or where Friend A had her baby. I really don’t want to discuss it
with you” On repeat. “I really don’t want to discuss it” “it’s really none of our business” “it’s really nothing to do with us, and I don’t want to discuss it” as many different ways as you need to!

I wholeheartedly disagree with free birthing and think it’s misguided, foolhardy and dangerous. That being said, not my circus not my monkeys. Other people can do what they like. If they ask my opinion I can give it but otherwise I just let people crack on.

just tell b to give it a rest.

What does she want her to do? Put the baby back in and go and deliver the baby in hospital?

I would tell her straight out that A didn't need her or your permission or blessing to go ahead with her own birthing plan. The baby is here now and mother and baby are well and that's all that should matter and she needs to drop it because you're not going to listen to it anymore.

B is being extremely unreasonable. Being upset and angry about A’s choice is one thing, but then to give you a hard time about being friends with her is completely ridiculous. You need to spell it out that you don’t want to take sides and she needs to stop discussing this with you as you’re fed up with it. Ultimately if she won’t stop then you’ll have to tell her that you don’t want to see her anymore unless she is prepared to refrain from talking about it.

Macaroninecklace, you're right that he wouldn't be breaking the law by simply being there, only by 'assisting'. We don't have information on that, and I made an assumption. Just making the point that it is not illegal for a woman to freebirth, but anyone with her needs to understand the law and make sure they don't break it.

"Friend B, I appreciate you feel very strongly about this but I don't think discussing it repeatedly is going to be helpful to either of us. Can we agree not to talk about it any more?"

If friend B is a nurse she should know about patient centred care and informed choice. As a midwife while I might personally think free birth is risky I’d support any woman who wanted a free birth. It’s sad though that due to previous experience she’s felt this is the best option.

i don’t think her dh has broken any laws even if he “assisted “. IIRC the law says something about it being illegal to act as a midwife unless qualified. That doesn’t mean that a husband can’t “pull” a baby out if they want to. It means that being a midwife is a protected term in law and it’s illegal for people to pretend to pregnant women that they are a bona fide midwife.

You need to tell her that she’s utterly and completely wrong about A’s choice. When she inevitably starts frothing about how “I have a RIGHT to my opiiiiiinionnnn!!!”, that’s when you reply, “Yes - and so do I. You don’t like it when I tell you your opinion is invalid? Well guess what - neither do I. So let’s not talk about this again, or you’ll have lost two friends”.

I think it's only assisting in some sort of medical capacity (by acting as a midwife or dr). Not an untrained person providing general assistance.

The reality is that many women end up ‘free birthing’ with their dh by their side simply because the birth was too quick/they waited too long to go to hospital.

As I remember it’s illegal to purposefully support someone to free birth but who will know/be able to make the difference??
Thats why the doulas I know who did that were careful to be ‘on their own’.

Having said that, the time to say something was BEFORE the birth. Not now.

And the best you can don@Ambienteamber is to tell your friend you dint really want to talk about it. Hopefully she’ll respect your boundaries.

I am a firm believer in women's body their choice. I think friend B is being unreasonable to fall out over it. Adults should be able to disagree without falling out. It is a personal choice. I would add women have been birthing babies since the beginning of time.

I think friend b is being unreasonable nagging at you. Sometimes something happens that makes you see people in a whole different light and it sounds like that is what happens here. Friend b has realised that friend A is a complete idiot who doesnt share her values who willingly endangered her own life and the life of her baby. She has realised that you don't share her values by being 'positive and supportive' about friend As incredibly stupid decision, real friends wouldn't be positive about a friend endangering their life in stupid way.

She obviously can't look at either of you the same way since so she needs to ditch the two of you and find people that are more on her wavelength not try and persuade you both to move to her wavelength.

I’m usually all for bodily autonomy (her body her choice etc etc)
But actually free birthing is batshit and extremely irresponsible and dangerous.
I understand b’s position at being outraged (as I would be) and wanting to stop her/not encourage her at all. Does A really know and appreciate the risk she is taking?
it’s beyond fucking stupid and I would be upfront and honest about my feelings on the matter.

I think I’d have to agree with @pictoosh there and say something. It’s not normal to be so invested in other people’s decisions. Friend A wasn’t being irresponsible-she is a trained doula and therefore a lot more knowledgeable than the average woman and knew what to expect. Friend B needs to accept her birth decisions may be different from other people’s and stop the endless preaching and criticism.

It sounds like friends an and b have both experienced trauma and I really feel for them both. I can see why friend b is so angry but I can also see why a wanted to go it alone, considering her other baby died anyway. Perhaps friend B is worried that A may send out the message to others that free birth is ok and that goes very much against her values. So I get it. If she can’t be friends with A anymore then that’s her choice. What does she want you to do, get A to say she regrets it?

Don't be ridiculous. Being a doula doesn't mean you can stop yourself from bleeding out giving birth. Anyone can call themselves a doula. Of course it is irresponsible to purposefully give birth without a medical professional, if the title 'doula' actually meant anything the friend would know this.

Friend B needs to stop projecting her own trauma onto Friend A. It's frankly none of her business what Friend A chose. She was not responsible for her care or for her choices. Friend B needs to realise she is being controlling and a bully.

B is unreasonable to try to pressure other people not to talk to A.
A is wildly irresponsible and could have killed her baby or caused them lifelong disability. I actually know a family who made the same decision and their poor child is now severely disabled, unable to walk or talk and in pain a lot of the time, not the mention the enormous cost to the health service that she was so against right up to the point she wasn't.
I'm of the opinion that it's everyone's business when someone puts someone else's life at risk, especially if that someone is a child.
I'm not sure I'd want much to do with either of them.

As PPs have said, free birthing is irresponsible, dangerous and frankly stupid imo. I think I would struggle to be supportive and positive if a friend said they were going to do that. Even a doula for me is a no. My DS and I nearly died during his birth so I can understand how friend B feels.

However, I don’t think I would be on this war path to get everyone to hate the free birthing friend. Ultimately, it’s nothing to do with me what other women choose to do during birth or who other women are friends with.

I think next time friend B brings it up, you should tell her. “Look, I think you need to let this go now. I don’t want to take a side here.”

Its actually a huge green flag if a friend says that, because if they know you’re not bitching about some other friend behind their back, because they know you won’t be doing it about them, either.

Does friend B need some therapy for her birth trauma?

The freebirth happened months ago and all ended up well.
She's not trying to prevent her from taking a risk at this point.

She's just continuing to berate her over and over again months later for no good reason!

Agree with what pps have said, especially around your friend's unresolved trauma as the root of this campaign. However, if she is a nurse I would expect she would have at least a basic understanding of the mental capacity act. It was entirely Friend A's choice/right to have a free birth, even if that was a potentially unwise decision, and as a nurse Friend B should be well aware of that.