Please help me figure out how to fix my kids ' childhood

[DrowningInChaos]

Theoretically, we are very privileged. Both dh and me have good jobs and the kids are relatively healthy. But our biggest issue (at least mine) is that there is just not enough time. Ever. The kids never have enough time to play, do craft, practice dd's instrument or do homework. We barely have enough time to talk and on top of that the kids are sleep deprived because there isn't enough time to sleep. And dd is late to school most days. I blame the long school days in the uk but other parents and kids seem to manage much better so it's obviously something we are doing wrong. I'm desperate. Please help me figure it out. Dd is 8 and in year 4. Ds is 3 and in pre school.

This is our schedule:

7.00 wake dd
7.20 dd slowly gets up (after lots of attempts to get her out of bed. Mostly still no shouting at this point)
7.20-8.00: dd gets ready (go to the toilet, get dressed, brush teeth and hair, pack school stuff, eat breakfast if there is time otherwise pack breakfast and eat in the car). More and more shouting and stress at this point for the kids to hurry up.
8.00 we have to leave at 8 to be at the school by 8.30. Most of the time we don't manage and are 5-10 minutes late. Most of the time we have forgotten something.

Ds gets up quite easily at 7 but needs help wothe very step of grtting ready. So he gets ready very quickly but then often delays everything by starting to play and refusing to leave the house.

8.30-3.30: school
4.00-4:15: back at home.
4.15-6.15 free time (but dd loses a lot of time by very slowly washing her hands and removing her shoes, etc). This is the time when theoretically she could do.any school related work or practice her instrument. Ds can just play.
6 -7.15 or 7.30: dinner. I know it's long but dd is severely underweight. No medical issues. Possibly arfid. She eats extremely slowly but we cannot cut down on this time and risk less calories going into her.
7.15 or 7.30 - 7.45: dance or play (so they don't go to bed feeling too full)
7.45 -8 or 8.15: get ready for bed (This is when I start getting stressed again)

8.30 - 8.45 lights out after reading for a while
Dd takes very long to fall asleep. Often an hour or so. It's not hecause she isn't tired. It's irrespective of when she goes to hed and she struggles so incredibly much waking up in the morning that she imo she needs more sleep. Ds is out like a light sometime between 8.15 and 8.30 whenever we manage to put him to bed. He is just turned 3, has just dropped his nap but we don't manage to put him to bed before that. He refuses to go upstairs without dd.

Once a week dd has a club at school followed by swimming so she only comes home by about 7pm and then everything is even more delayed. Once s week I need her to.atrend a club or after school club so I can finish work.

On Saturdays we have a slow start. Dd has an extra curricular activity at 11am but somehow we are also always late for this club. The biggest bottlenecks are getting ready and breakfast. She hates both. She is adamant that she wants to do this club. We try and keep Saturday afternoons and Sundays free for family outings, meet8ng friends, birthday parties, going to the park or play dates. Somehow they pass in a jiffy too. Sometimes her homework takes a couple of hours (or more).

Our biggest bottlenecks are getting ready and eating but I just don't know how to get dd to speeden up. I'm not sure she can. She is very absent minded and dreamy. And she is so tired in the morning, which slows her down too.

She loves doing craft but we have got a million craft projects lying around that she has started but doesn't get time to finish because she never gets a decent few hours or fald a day in one stretch to work on just one thing. There are the weekends but I also think it's important that she plays outdoors and with other kids so half a day goes at least in going to the park or on a playdate.

She loves reading but she reads so much that slowly I think it's doing more harm than good because of all the other things she is missing out on. She also loves talking which slows her down but then we need to have time to talk don't we? She often wants to talk to me at bedtime but we are usually so late already! I get some time to play with ds after school but at all times when dd is at home she talks non stop so there is very little opportunity to talk enough to ds. I thought his language skills were. underdeveloped for his age because of that but according to the health visitor his speech and comprehension are quite good. Still. I feel so bad for not talking to him enough m

Anyway, dd is also meant to do 20min of school work every day (app game based) but there is just no time. We just don't do it. She used to do very well academically but is noe starting to lag behind. She is learning an instrument but rarely practices.

Apologies for the length of this but I just don't know what to do. 1-2h of free time a day are just not enough to fit in anything of quality but I just don't know what to do. I wish she went to a different school that was closer to us and had a shorter day (and no homework) but that's a whole other thread. For now we are stuck with the school.

What am I doing wrong? What could i do betterI ?

I can feel my blood pressure rise every morning and evening when I need the kids to get ready either for school or for bed and I'm exhausted by the time it's done. I always used to be a calm and patient parent but now I'm starting to become more shouty and I hate it. It seems like there is no time for cheerfulness or playfulness let alone any proper playing. This isn't how childhood is supposed to be. Kids are meant to have loads of time. Enough time to get bored. My kids don't even have enough time to sleep. Please help me. What am I doing wrong?

I have a DD same age with similar difficulties and here is what I would do:

Night before: all bags packed, lunch ready to get out the fridge, uniform laid out.

6.45 wake DD, put on some music, get a "morning playlist" she can wake up to with some cheerful songs, we have "wake up it's a beautiful morning" first on ours!
7am get DS up, get him dressed, brush his teeth and hair
7.20 return to DD, get her dressed, brush her teeth and hair
7.30 DD practices her instrument while you make breakfast
7.40 breakfast
8am leave

4.15 back home. Visual on the wall for both kids showing shoes off, toilet, wash hands, put lunch boxes in kitchen, school bags by door, ideally a visual where you can show something has been done so they can tick all those off.

Until 5pm screen time or play time - timer on and set to go off at 5pm which is when screens go off. If they spend the entire time taking their shoes off and washing hands then their screen time gets used up. Put a timer in the loo for DD and encourage her to press it when she goes for a wee, see if she can beat the 3 minute timer.

5pm DD does homework while you make dinner - if she doesn't have homework or she's too tired, non-screen play time or helping you with dinner.

5.30 / 6pm dinner, as a PP suggested have games available to play while DD finishes hers if she's slow.

7.15 upstairs for both of them. Bath and pyjamas, DD has ONE craft project she's allowed to do in her room at a time and can do that or read while you get DS to bed.

That was my thoughts when you said
No medical issues. Possibly arfid

Which is actually a contradiction. If it's possibly arfid, it's possibly a medical condition because arfid is a medical issue!

DS was having loads of issues with food, and school (who handled the whole thing really badly) handed us a leaflet about ADHD/Autism without a single word more (like literally, heres a leaflet without any explanation or further comment about neurodiversity!).

Anyway, a few years down the line (after having a friend who eats restrictively saying that he thinks his food issues weren't helped by feeling pressure from parents to eat so we stopped and just let DS get on with it), DS is a lot better with food. He's now diagnosed with ADHD.

But the other thing here is ADHD in particular would explain your sense of 'having no time to do anything' as well as your daughter taking forever to get anything done.

It could be nothing, but the combination of that plus the timekeeping issue makes me wonder if it's possible.

This sounds like normal family life. They get 2.5 hours each day to themselves. Drop the weekend stuff it's not necessary. Start having some quality home time without having to be anywhere. Focus on getting out on time, the rest sounds fine.

@DrowningInChaos my 2 are the same ages as your and it really is difficult but you absolutely have more time at home in a day than we do and I don't feel half as rushed as your op sounds, it's a military operation though (and I don't ever sort playdates etc)

For clarity - our days look a bit like this -

Weekdays -
Wake (me) 6:00. 30 min workout then quick shower with a cup of tea.
Wake DH, Ds(8) and DS(4) around 6:45-7.
Breakfast is 7:15 - older one is obsessed with French Toast at the minute and as its a decent proteinous breakfast I'm happy to sort. Empty dishwasher, drink coffee, check calendar, while they eat.
Breakfast all done by 7:40, older one gets dressed, I get younger one sorted - DH leaves around 7:30.
Boys both ready by 8 which gives me 15 mins to do makeup, brush teeth and run around like a crazy person doing a swift tidy. Leave for school 8:15/8:20.
It's a 10 min walk each way but the way there can sometimes take longer due to dawdling, doors open at 8:40, get home swiftly to jump in the car and get to work for 9 (2 mile commute)

Work 9-5 BUT I go home for a 45 min lunch break and usually put a washload on and make a start on dinner, if DH is working from home this is our little moment together to a couple of times a week to just have a conversation hah!

Children are picked up from school at 3:20 by childminder, We could flex our day to finish earlier and work when they're in bed but we've decided that having that switch off time is more important at the minute and so they go to hers for an hour and a half or so and decompress there with other children from their school, play in the garden, watch tv, draw paint etc.

They're picked up at 5 and home by 5:15. they have some screen time until dinner is ready at 6, we sit together every night to eat - finish by 6:30. (except Wednesdays which they both go to karate and Thursdays is swim lessons each at 6pm) Dinner is quicker these nights, eggs on toast, omelette, slow cooked jacket potatoes etc.

On of us goes upstairs with them at 7:30, they get showered and then have reading time at 8 (DS8 reads alone, ds4 has one of us read with him) the other is cleaning down the kitchen, putting the washing in the drier, sorting and putting on dishwasher etc.

both are asleep by 8:30/845. Then we sort bags for the next day, have coffee mugs next to the machine ready to go clothes sorted, and we go to bed around 10.

We keep weekends very chilled, football practice Sat morning at 10 but nothing else planned in, sometimes go swimming on a Sunday, sometimes a family day out, sometimes a roast at home.

A couple of things stand out in your post.

The dancing around before bed so they don't go to bed feeling full.... I have literally never heard of that in my long old life. In fact, isn't that why we dream feed babies, so they can go to sleep nice and full?

And the fact you are concerned your little one doesn't get a chance to speak because your older one likes to talk. That is not really a problem (as your HV confirmed). In fact, it is good for him to hear plenty of back and forth chatter as you model how conversations work.

My point here is that you seem to be worrying/making rules that don't really matter. An earlier tea and a wind-down before bed (a slow amble - she seems to respond to that?) is probably better.

Also, if you know it takes her so long to get ready in the morning, why do you follow the same routine at home time (the hand-washing I mean). I think you can write off the morning palaver - I mean, it sounds as if you are getting to school on time (even if you have to chivvy). So why go for a routine at the other end you know takes time? Unless you think it helps her de-regulate or wind-down?

It's actually not very different, you did a 5 hour school day, children in uk do 5 hrs 15 mins learning time with 1hr 15 mins breaktimes and lunchtimes for eating and play, my daughter school day is 8.45-3.15. I'm guessing if you finished at 1 you then went home for lunch?
I think yours feels long in part due to your commute to school, rather than due to the school day itself being long.
I attended a state school which followed a more continental timing model, starting at 8am and finishing at 2.15pm, and I do agree that the longer afternoon gave more flexibility, but I think you would struggle to get your daughter there by 8am?

Yes!! I am another advocate for leaving the instrument permanently out of its case, and the music stand permanently up, with the music on it.

I never used to practice at all if I had to get everything set up, whereas if it's already out then you can just grab it for 5 minutes here and there, which is enough to make gradual progress.

And, even if she doesn't practice at all, it's still worth it if she enjoys the lessons. My instrument teacher at one point asked me if I wanted to actually make progress (exams etc.) or just play for fun, and so for about 3 years she just gave me fun pieces to play that didn't really stretch me much, until I was ready to start being pushed and putting the effort in again. It was all worth it in my book.

Thank you. She doesn't have a pediatric dietitian. Our gp referred her years ago but it never came through. He did say we were u likely to get an appointment.

She used to see a pediatrician for the slow weight gain and they, gp and all health visitors have always said: no videos, restrict eating time to 30min and add calories to every meal by adding lots of oil, butter, cheese, etc. We did all of that. 30min didn't work as dd would happily stop after 30min in spite of just having eaten a few morsels. I resisted the videos for many years but when we started with them they definitely helped. Dd ate more and stopped resisting meal times and more importantly they stopped being a battle. Now she just forgets about eating and chews super slowly so I want to stop them again.

Funnily enough I asked her recently to count how often she chews. The first time we tried this the first few bites required more than 50 chews. I think she chews too much. Rhe next time we did this I asked her to count and reduce it by 2 with every bite and funnily enough she managed to get down to 15. More importantly when counting her chews she actually finished her food very quickly. I'm thining of doing it everytime now instead of videos but I assume the novelty will soon wear off and I also feel bad for ds who will get even less attention then. It's often just me and the kids at dinner.

I am diagnosed with adhd (which doesnt help with the general chaos and mess making) and i wonder if she has it too. I don't think her symptoms are severe enough for a diagnosis though it might be sensible to get the ball rolling. However, I don't want the thread to be about that. Right now I'm looking for advice on behavioural strategies and on changing our lifestyle / environment to free up more time.

Year planner in hall/kitchen all dates go on and is checked every morning and night for usual events upcoming.

Have laminated check list for mornings - have check list - chalk board by door and check as leaving.

Get clothes and bags ready night before and do it with them ie it's not you they help. Try and have times in same place ie shoes/coats/keys and make sure they are there so avoid looking around time in mornings.

I used to do quick break after school - then there was a chalk list for every child to cross off (support work for 3 kids and school homework ) and we got that done before tea and then they could have TV. We did those task every day weekends and holidays - as any break from it was nightmare to restart - also did 10 minutes each child in morning - don't think it'an option of you.

You can try timers - but stressed DS out - needed lots of verbal reminders of what they should be doing.

By teens they were doing internal check list for themselves. By teen years ask about home work and suggest they don't leave it but leave management up to them - or with DD2 work out revisions timetable ie what she need to get done a week. DS realised he kept having to comeback for college ID - so decided it need to be on peg by front door so he sees it.

Evening meal seems late to me - it was not unheard of for kids to eat earlier and then have earlier bed time though we do like eating together when we could. We also don't allow books/devices at table - though will have radio on in backgrounds sometimes. Reminder about eating - could you try x - y is good to focus her on eating - having thing to distract from that seems really bad idea. Also found DD2 ate more if we did serving self from dishes at table.

Hardest time I found late primary early secondary years as there were more activities and lessons (swim) to fit in.

You need to see it as scaffolding building their skills up over years so when they leave home they have something to fall back on.

5pm DD does homework while you make dinner - if she doesn't have homework or she's too tired, non-screen play time or helping you with dinner.

This would be an issue for DS as he would be distracted by me making dinner so would have to be in another room. When he was 8 he needed me sitting down by him not doing anything else but keeping him on task. He’s a bit better now (10).

No, we have at the most 2h unless we cna get her to eat dinner quicker.

I'd love to do music practice with her but I need someone to look after ds at that time. It's something dh and me keep squabbling about.

That sounds like a fairly normal day to me!

Most families with school-age kids have that kind of schedule or even less if they have after-school care.

The problem is that the time you have is being eaten away by other stuff. Four or more hours between home and bed should allow for plenty of time, my DDs do lots in the evenings, they go out to clubs (the older one, little is only 2), they play etc. I don't feel like they are short of time at all to do stuff they want to do, but if the hours you have are being take up by really long routines or rituals around stuff then I imagine it can feel like you have no time.

You can't create more hours in the day, so short of tackling some of the stuff that takes a long time, I'm not sure what else there is to advise.

Get everything ready the night before.

For instrument practice, a daily alarm on your phone. My DD has a visual timer next to her instrument and does 10 mins a day. We do it after breakfast and before we leave for school.

I'd have DD at the table for when everyone else is eating but then give her bits and pieces to graze from elsewhere after the meal time. I also have to do this with my DD who is a very slow eater (ASC). It takes the pressure out of the whole thing for everyone.

This. My cousin has ADHD and for her it manifests in this way - that there are 200 things she thinks she should be doing and she has to fit them all into every day, which ends up in chaos and nothing getting achieved.

Across a week, all of these things are great but they’re not every day things.

Like PP have said, earlier dinner and earlier bed sounds like a good idea.

Then if you feel the need to fit in all the “shoulds” do them across a week or a fortnight, so:

Monday free time is instrument time.
Tuesday is crafting
Wednesday is free play
Thursday is scheduled activity
Friday is outdoor playing

then after tea is homework/reading/quiet play.

But actually if your daughter has ASD or ADHD, you’d get much more success from getting a diagnosis and tailoring your approach to the diagnosis so that simple tasks don’t take forever.

Works for you. Not an option for many. Not really relevant to the OPs problem.

Count downs were vital for DS.

10 minutes x will be happening - 5 minutes 4 minutes. By now y should have been done - at 8.15 last call for teeth.

At all mine benefited from that - early years of secondary they started to take control and do it themselves - to each other then internally. They know time they have to leave by so do it - as I did - I had bus to catch and not catching bus was a huge problem.

I'm wondering if you are expecting to much from an 8 year old . They need reminders - well mine did - they need keeping on track.

Writing down what needs to be done and then getting kids to tick off - is huge help it makes you focus on what actually needs to get done - helps manage time you have.

Not all kids can cope with as much.

My kids routine starts similarly but things happen quicker. Eldest nearly 8, youngest 5. I find the morning is a better time to fit homework, practise etc, they are fresher and not tired from school. Your school is quite far away - you do need to accept that choosing a school a 20 or 30 min drive away limits your time.

6 30 - 7: eldest is usually awake & reads in bed. Youngest will often wander in to me for a cuddle at 6.45 or so.
7am - both up. They are both dressed and downstairs etc by 7.15. Breakfast is usually finished by 7.35. I make packed lunches while they eat.

Eldest does 15 mins music practise then writes spellings (only takes 5 mins).

Youngest reads to me (10 mins) while eldest does music, then does music practise while eldest does spellings.

They play/draw etc until we leave at 8.30 (school is a 5 minute walk away).

I work so they have childcare 3 days after school til 5. The other two days i finish work earlier and collect from school and we go to sports activities/play at home

They eat tea 5.15pm.

Done by half past, then 20 mins of tv, then we go upstairs. Youngest has a bath then i read, goes to bed about 7.10. Eldest plays in his room, then goes in bath, then reads before lights out by 8pm.

On the weekends they wake at 7, its a slower start. Breakfast at 8, then we have swimming/ sport 9-11. The rest of the time is playing, seeing friends, park, walks etc

Im trying to think what makes it go quicker.

• your DD i think is waking too late. You need to aim for her to be fully awake/ready to get out of the bed, by 7am. If she comes round slowly perhaps she needs to go to bed earlier.
• you are losing time to your long journey to school.
• meals are slow. Ours did used to be. Youngest was also underweight. I needed to accept she often chooses to eat less & take the pressure off. Just remove the plate after 20 mins even if she's not had much. Be prepared to offer a top up meal or snack later. If she is really never hungry, even for junky foods, sugary snacks, sweets , you need medical help.

Not everyone copes with having lots to do. She might like the music but if its too much for her to practise, drop it.

How is her appetite for lunch at school?

I spoke to her teachers every year and told them we don't have time to do home or the app based games and they all said it's fine, dd is doing very well and doesn't need to do anything else. Some of them did put a lot of pressure on dd though in spite of e
what they told me especially for the stupid games (like tt rock stars, etc) as sometimes classes would get a prize for playing.

This year she has started getting regular written maths and English homework but that's just once a week and normally quite quick though English can sometimes be more assignment or project like and take half a day. However, this year I have motived that she is falling behind. She is supposed to know all her timetables till 12 and she definitely doesn't and her spelling needs working on.

You have to do what works for you! DD won't let me sit with her and watch what she's doing, because she gets stressed, but she does want me in the same room to prompt her to focus when she gets distracted or for any questions she has.

I think you need to parent the children you have not the ones you think you should have.

Your DD needs that down time.
Mine was the same diagnosed ADD as an adult.
She needed lots of sleep 12-14 hours and took ages to drop off.
Allow her reading time, screen time 30 mins a day after she has eaten
Prioritise their well being over what you think they should be doing.
Drop the instrument
One afterschool activity a week
Weekends just concentrate on sleep, walks, downtime etc
One craft project at a time

Totally agree on the everything ready the night before, allow longer transition and getting to school time.
Definitely go to GP

I posted previously about timers and just saw that you said they didn't work for you. Sorry about that.

I just wonder OP - what do you think will work and help your family?

I’ve not read everything but a few things jump out, you seem to have a lot of time compared to families working long hours with brekkie and after school club etc so you should be fitting in home work and not getting to school late.

Things that jumped out:

40 mins isn’t long enough for you all to be ready and out the door especially with breakfast taking a long time. You need to have everything ready.

As soon as you get home get DD on the home work and music practice - put the tv on for 3 year old if needed

Dinner between 5 and 5.30

Earlier bedtime

I’m not sure why you are late for the 11am hobby, I’d really cut down on scheduling stuff for the afternoon- kids don’t need to be on outings and play dates all the time, let them be bored do craft etc then use the time to get ahead. Go to the park for an hour to wear them out.

I'd love to do music practice with her but I need someone to look after ds at that time. It's something dh and me keep squabbling about.

Get him to join in or give him an occupying activity to keep him quiet and have him in the room. I had to do support work for 3 kids - there was no-one to have other two - DH worked long hours or was away. You find ways to keep others quiet or occupied or they learn to wait.

If she can't practise by herself and you can't help her then drop it for now and pick up at a later date.

Would your DS stay in bed an extra half hour in the morning as he gets ready quickly so you can stand with your DD and keep her getting out of bed and dressed?

How do you wake her? Open curtains, throw open window, tell her to stand up and stretch to the sky, then touch her toes, then twist to one side and the other. Do it with her - a mini 60 seconds of yoga. Once she’s up and moving she’ll be more awake, and it will be fun.

Then stay and supervise the getting dressed and washing. Treat her as if she’s younger while she catches up with this. Then put her breakfast in front of her and go get DS up.

Same after school. In door, stand there and watch the shoes/coats coming off and being hung up, then say into bathroom, wash hands now. Don’t leave them until it’s done - imagine she’s DS’s age. Then you can leave them to play while you do dinner.

Try no screens, say we will all talk to each other instead as she enjoys talking. Does DS sit with her for an hour while she eats? Let him get down and play so she can see she’s only holding herself up.

sort out DS’s worries about night time - he needs to go to bed 30 mins to an hour before DD.