Please help me figure out how to fix my kids ' childhood

[DrowningInChaos]

Theoretically, we are very privileged. Both dh and me have good jobs and the kids are relatively healthy. But our biggest issue (at least mine) is that there is just not enough time. Ever. The kids never have enough time to play, do craft, practice dd's instrument or do homework. We barely have enough time to talk and on top of that the kids are sleep deprived because there isn't enough time to sleep. And dd is late to school most days. I blame the long school days in the uk but other parents and kids seem to manage much better so it's obviously something we are doing wrong. I'm desperate. Please help me figure it out. Dd is 8 and in year 4. Ds is 3 and in pre school.

This is our schedule:

7.00 wake dd
7.20 dd slowly gets up (after lots of attempts to get her out of bed. Mostly still no shouting at this point)
7.20-8.00: dd gets ready (go to the toilet, get dressed, brush teeth and hair, pack school stuff, eat breakfast if there is time otherwise pack breakfast and eat in the car). More and more shouting and stress at this point for the kids to hurry up.
8.00 we have to leave at 8 to be at the school by 8.30. Most of the time we don't manage and are 5-10 minutes late. Most of the time we have forgotten something.

Ds gets up quite easily at 7 but needs help wothe very step of grtting ready. So he gets ready very quickly but then often delays everything by starting to play and refusing to leave the house.

8.30-3.30: school
4.00-4:15: back at home.
4.15-6.15 free time (but dd loses a lot of time by very slowly washing her hands and removing her shoes, etc). This is the time when theoretically she could do.any school related work or practice her instrument. Ds can just play.
6 -7.15 or 7.30: dinner. I know it's long but dd is severely underweight. No medical issues. Possibly arfid. She eats extremely slowly but we cannot cut down on this time and risk less calories going into her.
7.15 or 7.30 - 7.45: dance or play (so they don't go to bed feeling too full)
7.45 -8 or 8.15: get ready for bed (This is when I start getting stressed again)

8.30 - 8.45 lights out after reading for a while
Dd takes very long to fall asleep. Often an hour or so. It's not hecause she isn't tired. It's irrespective of when she goes to hed and she struggles so incredibly much waking up in the morning that she imo she needs more sleep. Ds is out like a light sometime between 8.15 and 8.30 whenever we manage to put him to bed. He is just turned 3, has just dropped his nap but we don't manage to put him to bed before that. He refuses to go upstairs without dd.

Once a week dd has a club at school followed by swimming so she only comes home by about 7pm and then everything is even more delayed. Once s week I need her to.atrend a club or after school club so I can finish work.

On Saturdays we have a slow start. Dd has an extra curricular activity at 11am but somehow we are also always late for this club. The biggest bottlenecks are getting ready and breakfast. She hates both. She is adamant that she wants to do this club. We try and keep Saturday afternoons and Sundays free for family outings, meet8ng friends, birthday parties, going to the park or play dates. Somehow they pass in a jiffy too. Sometimes her homework takes a couple of hours (or more).

Our biggest bottlenecks are getting ready and eating but I just don't know how to get dd to speeden up. I'm not sure she can. She is very absent minded and dreamy. And she is so tired in the morning, which slows her down too.

She loves doing craft but we have got a million craft projects lying around that she has started but doesn't get time to finish because she never gets a decent few hours or fald a day in one stretch to work on just one thing. There are the weekends but I also think it's important that she plays outdoors and with other kids so half a day goes at least in going to the park or on a playdate.

She loves reading but she reads so much that slowly I think it's doing more harm than good because of all the other things she is missing out on. She also loves talking which slows her down but then we need to have time to talk don't we? She often wants to talk to me at bedtime but we are usually so late already! I get some time to play with ds after school but at all times when dd is at home she talks non stop so there is very little opportunity to talk enough to ds. I thought his language skills were. underdeveloped for his age because of that but according to the health visitor his speech and comprehension are quite good. Still. I feel so bad for not talking to him enough m

Anyway, dd is also meant to do 20min of school work every day (app game based) but there is just no time. We just don't do it. She used to do very well academically but is noe starting to lag behind. She is learning an instrument but rarely practices.

Apologies for the length of this but I just don't know what to do. 1-2h of free time a day are just not enough to fit in anything of quality but I just don't know what to do. I wish she went to a different school that was closer to us and had a shorter day (and no homework) but that's a whole other thread. For now we are stuck with the school.

What am I doing wrong? What could i do betterI ?

I can feel my blood pressure rise every morning and evening when I need the kids to get ready either for school or for bed and I'm exhausted by the time it's done. I always used to be a calm and patient parent but now I'm starting to become more shouty and I hate it. It seems like there is no time for cheerfulness or playfulness let alone any proper playing. This isn't how childhood is supposed to be. Kids are meant to have loads of time. Enough time to get bored. My kids don't even have enough time to sleep. Please help me. What am I doing wrong?

This is my DD to a T! If you ever find out how to remedy these slow tendencies and pretty much everything else you’ve described, please do update! Or likewise if there’s a neurodiversity.

I would say DD needs to get up earlier so she needs to go to bed earlier. Move dinner to earlier. One of my children was a very slow eater so often I gave him his tea whilst he read a book etc etc I would drop the instrument and drop any extra clubs activities. I would go into school and talk to them about the homework, is it too hard? If it's not at the right level it will take ages. I would probably think about having one afternoon at home doing nothing. Lots of pottering, all watching a film together and having snacks on the sofa. Lounge picnic we used to call it.

I don't understand what DD actually does in the 6-6.15 slot, it can't all be taking off shoes and washing hands?!

Does she want to continue with the instrument? If not, she should drop that.
If she has a million craft projects, the issue isn't time, she should just continue with an old one instead of starting a new one in the time she does get. If the issue is she's bored of them, can you focus on easily finishable projects - work out how long she usually spends on craft and come up with ideas of projects that fill that time, or if she enjoys the process rather than end results, get her used to tidying away/dismantling/binning the half finished ones.
I wouldn't discourage the reading if she loves it, it's great for her to read lots.
Are there any meals she'd enjoy for the taste and would eat because she likes them even when she's not hungry? Does she manage to eat all her lunch at school?
If it's any consolation, the unfinished crafts, never feeling hungry and hours of reading/talking sound a lot like me as a child and I think I've turned out fine 😄 (I have needed to develop my own systems for time management and prioritisation)
Is it possible you're making this a bigger issue than it needs to be because you're anxious about your own struggles with organisation? Hard to tell from your post to what extent you need changes to your systems and to what extent you're doing the best you can and managing ok with a lot of spinning plates, but it does sound like you're putting pressure on yourself to meet specific expectations for DC's childhoods that don't need to be there, eg weekly playdates

I know you don't want to hear this but I also have a bright child who can't do basic things at any pace at all - and if we sent her upstairs to do a simple task she'd be sat on the floor reading a book. It took a while, but she was diagnosed with inattentive ADHD. She also never knew she was hungry for years. (and I was diagnosed alongside her).

She loves her meds, she says it's like getting glasses for her brain. We had a very good private paediatrician, who titrated them very slowly and have had no significant side effects. Her ADHD is such that we've had to get her to take a fast acting dose first thing in the morning so she can get onto the bus to secondary school.

But one other thing does stand out to me from your posts, which is that I think it might be unhelpful to untangle your feelings about your past and your life, whether good or bad, about meds or your own childhood, from hers. She's not you and won't ever have the same life as you, so what works for her? It might be meds, it might not; an instrument might be good, it might not. But there are no 'oughts' or 'shoulds'. What does she feel or think?

dinner for both kids might be better much earlier- 5pm? My kids also do well if they get proper dinner directly after school (4pm) then an evening snack just before bed.

This works for us OP, my daughter is the same as yours with food, and she's usually her most hungry straight from school so this has helped, it's also helped the after school routine much less stressful.

Drop the instrument, it's too much for her right now.

Uniform needs to be laid out and school stuff packed the night before to lessen stress in the mornings.

Also, prescribed melatonin is a game changer

Shorter school days and me not having to work so dd could actually come home earlier. 3 day weekends. No adhd for me and for dd or ds to not have it either.😆

However, that is utopia. It's not going to happen. I got a lot of good ideas on this thread ahd I'll try to implement them. I'm actually excited about maybe making it on Monday to school on time. I'm going to read all the posts again tonight and write down things as otherwise I won't remember. I think having dinner earlier is definitely a good idea. I will do that from today.

I would guess your DD is hungry after school. She may not recognise it as such but school meals are early, rushed and the staff won't be stood over her making her eat like you do.
I'd aim for children's meal no later than 5pm and you eat later. You can all eat as a family at weekends.

I'd also bring forward bedtime considerably. Aim for in bed by 7pm.
Instrument is optional, if she loves it she will fit it in, life's too short to enforce it especially with a big family and working parents.

Op I have a just turned 8yo in Y4. This is our routine.

My ds is an early riser so he gets up at 6am and reads till 6:45. I set up some books and his Yoto player which he still enjoys next to his bed. We are all still asleep at this point.

He then comes into our room where our 2yo sleeps as well. This is at 7am.
When he enters he is already dressed and asking if he can go make his breakfast. I'm not kidding. I sort the baby out while he has breakfast. From 7:30-8 he plays with our 2yo while I get ready. Or he will read.
We leave at 8am to be in school at 8:20.

He is also a slow and fussy eater so weekdays we keep it simple. Breakfast is things that he eats, healthy and enjoys. He packs his bag with any kits the night before and leaves it at the door. He is so responsible and independent but it took a lot of sticking to a routine with us.

I really think your day starts too late. 1 hour to do everything with a slow paced child is just asking for trouble. Get her up at 6:30 so it's slow paced and no one is left stressing.

We get home between 4-5 everyday with clubs. Ds has a snack on the way from school, gets home plays with our 2yo for a bit then straight to homework. He gets 20 mins of a subject per day. After that he immediately has his shower and then has dinner by 5:45/6pm with our toddler. He is also a slow eater but by 6:30 he is done and free to do whatever till 8pm.
I think that is his incentive having 1.5 hours of time to himself.

I think your day starts too late.

My DD also in year 4. She doesn't get homework at all. And they did timetables last year but she definitely doesn't know them all. The teachers are very pleased with her progress so I wouldn't necessarily worry about these things.

My ds had feeding therapy as he was so bad with food. He is still a slow and picky eater. I just don't force the things he hates or stresses him. At school I know that he doesn't eat much, but they are fortunate to have an extremely varied menu and different food stations to choose from. I've kind of just left him to manage his own appetite. He is also on the underweight side.
I pick him up with a good healthy snack as he usually so hungry and dinner is also quite healthy and filling. So his lunch meal is poorly eaten and the biggest part of his day, but I make sure breakfast and dinner is proper and nutritious.

@DrowningInChaos I would calm your weekends down completely. No organised anything apart from the club she really wants to do. She is surrounded by kids all week in school, so just chill out at home. Potter around for 2 days a week. Thats what we do. It helps.

@DrowningInChaos could you afford to go to a private paediatric dietitian?

Do you supplement with a multi vit?

I'd start firstly by swapping the tea and dancing the other way around. If I let my kids have a disco before bed, they'd never ever relax enough to sleep, it would wake them up. What about a nice warm, relaxing bath just before bed?
How about an audio book playing whilst they have tea? It would give them something to listen to but not get distracted by the pictures. Maybe do buffet style teas so your dc can choose foods she likes. My youngest dc has sensory processing disorder and food is something he struggles with so a buffet tea helps on days when he can't eat properly.
You could also follow on by playing the audio book to let them fall to sleep to. Do you stay in their rooms whilst they go to sleep? If you do, you inadvertently could be keeping them up longer.
Ditch the instrument. Get a recorder or something to just whistle and blow around the house or play music around the house and encourage singing.
Why do your children need at least one playdate a week? They see friends at school and until my children started getting older, weekend was family time whether it be going on a day out, having a pj and movie day, days of crafts/baking etc. Kids do need time at home just to chill and do what they want. I found that such rigid routines don't help much after the baby/toddler phase so scaled everything right back. Start mornings the wrong way round and get teeth brushed, dressed and shoes on straight away and then it's breakfast time. They can then have up until you leave to eat and if they still have some toast or fruit left (easy to take with in the car), take it with to finish on the way to school.
I never did homework and reading after school. It was always in the morning. Maybe start waking them up at 7am and aim to be out of bed for 7.15. Teeth, dress, shoes and read/do homework whilst eating breakfast

Kids supper needs to be way earlier. At that age my kids were having dinner at 5pm. No distractions at the dinner table. That’s the time for chatting about your day. You sit down with the kids with a cup of tea and chat to them whilst they eat.

No jumping around and dancing before bed. Bathtime and wind down from 7pm. Into bed by 7:30 for both although DD can read for as long as she likes (within reason).

I wouldn’t let her take hours to get dressed, wash hands, put on/take off shoes, brush teeth etc. I’d just do it for her to speed up the whole process, life is too short and she’ll be independent when she’s ready.

Wow! Respect to your daughter! Has she carried on with it? My son is still playing violin and he's at secondary school now. He sounds lovely and I'm so pleased he's continued but he still needs to be told to practise!

I think once I got to a solid level it became a pleasure to play and I practised without being nagged but that wasn't until grade 5/aged 14/15 ish.

Haven’t read all replies just most of the first page and your first couple of posts.
you say in the morning takes a while also to prepare/pack school things- do that the night before. What I found works better for us not to drag the evenings longer than necessary is have a very early dinner- DC is back from school by around 3:15; he’s usually quite hungry so has a very small snack while I get dinner done and his dinner is 4:30-5ish. If he’s hungry before bed (we start bath around 6:45-7) he has a banana or some cheese and that’s enough until the morning. Are you able to do that so even if she takes forever dinner is done early and you can get them up to bed earlier if you think that’d help?
and of course, try to get to the bottom of things with your daughter re her eating.

This stood out to me: He refuses to go upstairs without dd. Um, no. Learn to parent.

You're disorganised and you're letting your children run the show.

Bedtimes are too late.

You're letting your 8 YEAR OLD daughter move too slowly hence you're late for everything.

Take her to school in pajamas if she's not ready; she'll only do it once.
Put your son in the car when you need to leave. He's 3. You're bigger. You need to go.
She misses her Saturday club if she's not in the car by X time, with X things completed, end of. No caving. She'll be ready the following week.

Have all school things and food items packed and ready to go the night before. Or order school dinners. Heck, put them in the car so they're there if you must. But pre-pack everything.

Keep spare snacks/jackets in the car; those are the usual missing items for children.

Recite times tables in the car on the way to school, starting with 2x2 = 4 etc. On the way home carry on wherever you left off in the morning.

Tuesday start again where you finished yesterday, etc etc. Hopefully by the end of the week you'll have reached 12x12.
(Don't let all that chanting doesn't affect your driving!)

Lots of really good replies so far. I'd just like to add a few points:

Just to clarify: she doesn't take 2h to take off her shoes and wash her hands. It doesn't take her longer than other kids. So she will come in and then pick up a book or do this and that because hand washing is boring. So she will procrastinate handwashing for a quite a long time but in that time she won't start anything of what she wants to do because she knows she still needs to wash her hands

Handwashing
I don't understand why this handwashing is so important. It's obviously wasting so much time because it's boring and she doesn't want to do it and messes about procrastinating.
Come in the door, shoes off (and that should take seconds), spray hand disinfectant on her hands or use wipes (these can be stored in the entrance hall), she rubs it into her hands and then she goes straight into the living room or wherever to get on with the rest of the afternoon. If she has to go upstairs or to the downstairs cloakroom and faff on washing her hands it's easy to lose time.

Musical Instrument
It is a waste of everyone's time and money if she does not practice. 10 - 15 minutes on at least 5 days of the week are essential or you might as well not bother. I'd give her a chance if she's still saying she wants to learn, but she needs to come in from school and do it straight away. No messing around etc and you need to support her in doing that because the vast majority of children of her age (and I include neurotypical children here) are not able to manage their own practice without prompting from a parent.
If she messes around and doesn't practise even with you supporting her and reminding her then you should drop the instrument for now and maybe revisit the idea a bit later when she might be better able to cope with it.

DH
What is he doing in all of this?

Health/ADHD
She really does need to be assessed for ADHD.
I also think you need to talk to the GP and ask for blood tests. This level of tiredness and slowness is not normal and it should be investigated.

Your school experience
Please stop comparing this to your school experience and talking about how you had all afternoon. I appreciate what you are saying and I also agree with you on your points about UK children being pushed into academics and long days too soon.
However, plenty of UK children manage to come home from school and learn musical instruments and go to clubs and do crafts at home and eat their meals within a reasonable length of time. By talking about your school experience and basically placing blame on the UK school system you are distracting yourself from the fact that she should be able to go to school and do the other things too even though our days are longer.
As things stand I actually think you would have even more problems if you were at a school in a European country which starts at 7.30 am (like the one I teach in) and had to have the children ready for that. She can't get up and organized in the mornings as it is.

Sleep wise we've just been told DS and DD1 sleep issue - getting to sleep remain asleep are very probably related to ADHD (inattentive) - there are many threads on here about that - (one today Not sleeping) - could be why she is so tried in the morning - so looking into diagnosis and reading round for tips to help sleep may also be helpful.

I think the problem is that by ignoring the ADHD (both yours and hers) you are missing half the story - using time better will only be possible if/when you take this into account.

For example someone said this:

Your kids are home around 4 and you have all the time until bedtime. What is it that needs to be done? 20mins homework/ 10 mins instrument practice? That's 30 minutes total. Maybe arrive home, 30 mins to use the loo/grab a snack then get those jobs done first.

And I don't mean to pick on that one post, which is why I didn't tag the poster, because there are a lot of posts saying things like you need to do this earlier/you're taking too long over that/this is too slow.

When you have multiple people with ADHD it just takes longer to shift through things because transitions, and decisions, are difficult. It's like if you had a physical disability you might need more space to move around - ADHD (and ASD) needs more time. There is absolutely no way that I would be able to get kids into the house, out of coats/shoes/bags put away, everyone have a wee and me make a snack and them eat it, within 30 mins. That is just impossible. There is a whole load of reminding, persuading, explaining, getting off task and having to redirect - and having to do this in such a way that it doesn't kick off a massive dysregulated fight too.

And the idea of homework/music practice actually taking the 20/10 mins again is not realistic and is going to need more transition time too.

Yes my kids are younger, and one is quite prone to meltdowns which OP's DD sounds like she is not. But this is basically what the reality is like - and I am medicated and we have good systems at home so I can make a snack fairly easily, without having to clean the entire kitchen first (for example) - but you just have to leave a buffer around everything which makes everything take longer.

Focus on what you can control yourself. You can’t change the uk school day so it’s easy to blame your woes on that but it stops you from taking agency on the things you can control. If I was you I’d focus on getting out the door on time in the morning as everyday you are running late you are setting yourselves up for a stressful day. Also where is your husband! Why are you doing everything yourself?

There is absolutely no way that I would be able to get kids into the house, out of coats/shoes/bags put away, everyone have a wee and me make a snack and them eat it, within 30 mins. That is just impossible. There is a whole load of reminding, persuading, explaining, getting off task and having to redirect - and having to do this in such a way that it doesn't kick off a massive dysregulated fight too.

I had similar why I think I found routines, countdowns and lists so helpful.