Not sure what to do - would you just leave this?

[Squishsquashcat]

It’s very minor in the grand scheme of things.

DS - 15 and year 11, is generally a well behaved kid. He's never had a detention at school, does his homework, top sets etc.

I got a message from school today to say he has an after school detention tomorrow for ‘anti social’ behaviour.

I asked ds and he was - I believe - genuinely taken aback. He stated straight away he didn’t know what it was for. We knew which lesson the detention related to from the message and he said the only thing he could think of was that there had been an incident where a pencil case of a student was hidden - ds didn’t take it but he did laugh about it. The teacher asked where it was and ds replied and said ‘it’s at the back of the room.’ And as far as he was concerned that was it.
I realise this behaviour is irritating and I’ve suggested that it’s not ok - but usually the behaviour system goes warning, lunchtime detention and then after school. I could see maybe a lunchtime detention but after school seems heavy handed. Usually a straight after school detention would be for something like fighting, swearing at a teacher etc. I’ve worked in the school so I am aware of how it usually works.

I emailed the teacher and she replied and said ‘I’m surprised he’s forgotten as we would never have expected to have to give X a detention’
she then went on to say he had ‘put on a stupid voice’ and she’d had to ask ‘several times,’ to fetch the pencil case from the back of the room.

DS is absolutely refuting this - to the point where he’s asking me to get witnesses 🙄 as they will confirm his version of events.
He is most outraged that she is saying he knew about the C3. I really believe he didn’t because I don’t see what he’d have to gain from saying he wasn’t aware?
He wants me to go to see her - with him - to apologise if his tone was off (he is ASD and sometimes his tone doesn’t match exactly how he means to come across). I think the ASD means that he is also finding this hard because he doesn’t think it’s fair. As far as we are aware the others didn’t get a detention unless they also weren’t told.

He’s also said he will go and see her on his own because he wants to understand why he has the detention.

He wants me to take it up with the head of year. I’m inclined to say to him to sit the detention, suck it up and don’t be a pain in the future. On the other hand he is OUTRAGED and says she is lying. I’ve explained that if he isn’t being a pain at all then these thing won’t happen but he still wants me to take it to the HoY. This seems overkill to me but I think to him it’s important.

Aibu to just say sit the detention and leave it? Or should I wade in on this?

My ds has ASD and a huge sense of justice. He'd be the same. He'd want to make sure all systems were followed correctly and people didn't get away with "lying" (out in quotes as that's how he's see it).

I think if he wants to confirm exactly what he is being punished for he should go to his HOY and ask.

I always encouraged my ds is have these conversations himself rather than me having them.

No, I wouldn't go to the head of year at this point. But I would talk through this with your son and encourage him to go speak to his teacher once he's calmed a bit. I'd start by reminding your DS that getting one detention doesn't mean anyone believes he's a bad kid or was intending to do something wrong. But being a good kid with a good heart doesn't mean he didn't make a few poorly thought-out choices that will have a one-time consequence.

It sounds like while your DS didn't take & hide the pencil case, he did know where it was hidden (and presumably who hid it there). And yet he didn't immediately volunteer to go retrieve it? Taking and stealing other students' things is common, low-level bullying and intentional disruption. Ask him to reflect on the how the owner of the pencil case might have felt when his pencil case was hidden and another student who knew where it was was laughing instead of helping, why his teacher might have been frustrated, and what he could have done differently.

Encourage him to talk to his teacher and offer to go in with him if he'd like, but tell him you're not going just to argue with the teacher. Suggest he start with an apology for laughing and not retrieving the case the first time she or the owner asked after it. If he feels the consequence she chose was too harsh he can say so and ask her why.

I think this is could be a great lesson in how sometimes you have to live with a minor injustice, and save your ammunition for major injustices. What is a detention, an hour? You may also want to bring up the stress the teacher is under, and ask him to do his best to be helpful and support the teacher, rather than just another kid laughing at misbehavior. I'm not sure kids always see teachers as actual human beings with feelings.

It could also be a great opportunity for him to learn to respectfully stand up for himself without parental intervention. He's getting close to the age where he'll have to do it anyway at work, university etc.

Is this justice as seen from one (his) angle or is he able to see the bigger picture? What about the student whose pencil case was hidden? He must have felt picked on and put on the spot. What about justice for the teacher to focus on teaching without disruptive behaviour? What about all his classmates who lost valuable lesson time for a boring prank? Or is it all about one person's justice (focusing on your rights and entitlements but not your responsibilities)? I would explain to my dc that justice is a rather complex topic and is much related to morality and that respect goes both ways. OP's son could have apologised and instantly offered to correct the silly prank but he did't, so yes he was anti social. There are lots of books on crime, justice and morality that can help your son to have a more compassionate view of justice and all that that entails.

‘I’m done, I’ve had enough of this,’ and then proceeded to walk out of the room for a couple of minutes before coming back in.

I think I’d be contacting the head of year in this instance and just calmly stating your son’s perspective. This is a teacher who clearly isn’t coping and wasn’t able to deal well with a relatively minor disruption to the class. She needs support and your son shouldn’t be being penalised in this way.

Based on my experiences with school I would believe your sons version of events 100% and go in to stand up for him. If you let it slide your son will continue to be harassed by the teacher because there will be zero response from home and they know they will get away with it. Sounds nuts I know but schools are batshit crazy right now.

Who said he did?

You know your ds. From what you've said, it sounds like he is telling the truth and he genuinely feels that this is unjust.

I would absolutely talk to the HoY in this situation. He needs to know that you have his back and will fight his corner when there is an injustice. At the same time, you need to manage his expectations so that he knows you won't necessarily be able to put things right and he might have to go to the detention anyway. And of course, he needs to know that you will hold him to account and expect him to face the consequences if he has actually done something wrong.

My dd has an incredibly strong sense of justice and she would have struggled immensely with just "sucking up" a punishment that she didn't believe to be fair. It would have been very important to out relationship for me to support her in challenging it.

It will mean a lot to him that you believe him and that you're willing to challenge it on his behalf, even if he still ends up having to do the detention anyway. This doesn't sound to me like a case of a kid taking the piss and trying to avoid the consequences of his actions. It sounds like a kid who genuinely believes that he doesn't deserve the punishment, and it will make a big difference for him to know that you're on his side.

My dd has adhd and often gets in trouble for things others have done. At first I supported the school and told her to suck it up (she has no filter so I always get the full story) but after one incident where she was so upset I thought I should really be in her corner. Went in to speak to teacher and they admitted it hadn’t been her who had done the thing (turns out when the ‘good’ girls do something wrong they find someone else to punish 🙄 as a warning) and since then I always take her corner as long as she is honest with me.

so in your case I would support him

It sounds like a kid who genuinely believes that he doesn't deserve the punishment, and it will make a big difference for him to know that you're on his side.

He may believe he did no wrong but by not telling the teacher where the pencil case was or quickly fetching it and being helpful he was prolonging the prank so was being disruptive and disrespectful. Those with kids who have this strong sense of what's right and wrong will need to uphold their end of the bargain, right? It's not fair or right to prolong this silly prank, it's right to help the teacher out and show a respect and helpful attitude.

Of course he did no wrong, this type of thing is t disruptive to the lesson at all 🙄

He does the detention and doesn't do it again.

@itwasnevermine it's not fair that OP's son is expected to help resolve the pencil case prank when teacher asked him to retrieve it. It's also not fair that Op's son wasn't allowed to laugh about the prank and make a fellow pupil feel stupid and humiliated in front of the class. It's not fair that he isn't supposed to put on a mocking voice. T'int right, t'int fair, t'int fit, t'int proper.

It's not just just

😂😂

This is why behaviour in schools is so bad, because when kids misbehave the parents decide they want to fight it

Or maybe sometimes it's because kids decide if they are going to be punished for something they didn't do, there's no point in behaving well...

But his detention was for anti social behaviour, not for stealing the pencil case. He was involved in this type of negative behaviour.

Taking about 'behavior in schools' (plural) doesn't relate to a single event and a single school child.

We have heard about other instances of unfair punishment in this thread too - it does happen. And my use of the word 'sometimes' should indicate that I'm not suggesting it refers to all bad behavior in schools. Just before anyone decides that's what I'm saying.

Mother of ASD child here. Hard though it sounds, they have to get used to their tone of voice and expressions sometimes being interpreted unfairly.

This incident is what I would categorise under "rough justice" and move on, but I would make a point of flagging the communication issue to his teacher at the next parent-teacher meeting.

Also, teens can have a way of being rude and totally not realising how they are coming across. I remember my ASD teen saying really something quite rude to me and 5 mins later her swanning back in genuinely not realising why I was still upset! So sometimes it needs explaining and perhaps detention will allow some pause for thought.

Also, I would have a quick check-in with your son about the origins of the pencil case incident. If another pupil's equipment is being hidden regularly, then the teacher may be concerned about bullying.

Edited to say: I will probably get lambasted for saying this but honestly I try on principle to back the teachers up, support their decisions, and give them the benefit of the doubt, because they were there during the incident for starters, it's hard trying to control a classroom full of kids, and I think good things happen generally when parents and teachers cooperate in the best long term interests of the child. Even when short-term, there may be a few blips!

@Thunderpants88

But it isn't dangerous, abusive or unfair.
The tone of your message suggests that he's being asked to do something illegal.
As someone pointed out he laughed at someone else's misfortunate and that's unkind.
The teacher decided the punishment was a detention so be it.

Assuming there's 30 in a class and they have 5 lessons a day. Say this happens with 10 kids in each class with their mates who they sit with every day. ...
It's constant low level disruption. This kind of behaviour takes up teaching time every single lesson. By get a grip Do you think they should just let it go? How do they get any work done?

But as I used to say to my DS - the classroom is NOT the playground, don't disrupt others who actually want to learn.

Ffs, all these kids who have a burning sense of justice that only kicks in when they are facing an 'unfair' punishment and never when someone else is suffering bullying, humiliation, stress etc. And all these parent / child relationships that will absolutely disintegrate into dust unless parents back up their child when they are facing an disputed punishment. No wonder schools are an absolute shit show now.

sense of justice is a trait often seen in kids with adhd and my dd will step in if she thinks other people are suffering an injustice - be it from other kids or teachers. And she gets in trouble for it!!

He didn't take the pencil case he laughed at it

Why is a prank he merely observed his problem to resolve?

I'd just tell the school that they won't be attending this detention as the correct process wasn't followed.

I would tell ds to shut up, keep his head down for a while and let the school forget about it.

If the school keep pushing the issue, then follow the complaints process.