Not sure what to do - would you just leave this?

[Squishsquashcat]

It’s very minor in the grand scheme of things.

DS - 15 and year 11, is generally a well behaved kid. He's never had a detention at school, does his homework, top sets etc.

I got a message from school today to say he has an after school detention tomorrow for ‘anti social’ behaviour.

I asked ds and he was - I believe - genuinely taken aback. He stated straight away he didn’t know what it was for. We knew which lesson the detention related to from the message and he said the only thing he could think of was that there had been an incident where a pencil case of a student was hidden - ds didn’t take it but he did laugh about it. The teacher asked where it was and ds replied and said ‘it’s at the back of the room.’ And as far as he was concerned that was it.
I realise this behaviour is irritating and I’ve suggested that it’s not ok - but usually the behaviour system goes warning, lunchtime detention and then after school. I could see maybe a lunchtime detention but after school seems heavy handed. Usually a straight after school detention would be for something like fighting, swearing at a teacher etc. I’ve worked in the school so I am aware of how it usually works.

I emailed the teacher and she replied and said ‘I’m surprised he’s forgotten as we would never have expected to have to give X a detention’
she then went on to say he had ‘put on a stupid voice’ and she’d had to ask ‘several times,’ to fetch the pencil case from the back of the room.

DS is absolutely refuting this - to the point where he’s asking me to get witnesses 🙄 as they will confirm his version of events.
He is most outraged that she is saying he knew about the C3. I really believe he didn’t because I don’t see what he’d have to gain from saying he wasn’t aware?
He wants me to go to see her - with him - to apologise if his tone was off (he is ASD and sometimes his tone doesn’t match exactly how he means to come across). I think the ASD means that he is also finding this hard because he doesn’t think it’s fair. As far as we are aware the others didn’t get a detention unless they also weren’t told.

He’s also said he will go and see her on his own because he wants to understand why he has the detention.

He wants me to take it up with the head of year. I’m inclined to say to him to sit the detention, suck it up and don’t be a pain in the future. On the other hand he is OUTRAGED and says she is lying. I’ve explained that if he isn’t being a pain at all then these thing won’t happen but he still wants me to take it to the HoY. This seems overkill to me but I think to him it’s important.

Aibu to just say sit the detention and leave it? Or should I wade in on this?

I agree with this.

It’s likely a case of your son not understanding what he’s done wrong. You say he sometimes uses a tone accidentally but to the teacher that is still him using a tone (in front of the class that would have felt very belittling). And whilst he didn’t directly move the bag was laughing at it being moved (most likely at the other child’s expense).

You should back him to a certain degree as he doesn’t believe he’s done anything wrong,
see if you can discuss with the teacher and establish the facts. But my guess would be he laughed, mocked the teacher with a funny voice and she went heavy with an ASD because she’s stressed and wanted to make a point!

I agree with this 100%. And your son has contributed to the disruption this caused in the lesson. I’d tell him to suck it up and take it up with the teacher himself if he wants to dispute it.

As I said, I'm totally fine with people disagreeing - but I get like you missed a key part of my post.

He didn't move the other child's belongings, and says he has witnesses that will back up that he didn't mock the teacher - which is an important factor here. If the witnesses agreed with the teacher, then of course I would have no issue with the detention. If the witnesses were to back the child's version, then and only then would I be backing up the child.

How do you know she was off with stress? That should be private.
Your son might well be telling the truth but as a teacher that situation sounds awful - a load of kids hiding someone’s stuff, bullying them, and it’s impossible to tell who is most responsible, instigated, and who is playing along. It’s incredibly disruptive, hurtful to the student and undermining to staff. You end up either trying to dismiss it or coming down harshly on everyone involved equally.

Imagine if you were there and knew the true events

I think your son needs to accept the detention and let it go...he admits to laughing about it being moved and not getting it.

This could contribute to being disruptive in classs, or even a long standing bullying for the pencil case owner (I'm not saying your son specifically bullies but this kid could always be the butt of the joke from others )

I think he needs to accept that he was wrong, no matter how small he perceived his wrong doing and take the detention

I agree with a PP that it’s important to recognise the importance of this incident to DS and you could tell him you agree the punishment is too harsh. But you can also say that you don’t want to get involved though you respect his decision about whether he decides to fight this one.

Is the teacher not the key witness? Or do we now think teachers lie to put kids in detention?

I'd be mentioning to the head about the poor teacher having to leave the room.

Can't believe you saying the punishment is heavy-handed and only fighting and swearing at teachers should be after school detentions. My school is quite weak on behaviour and we have quite high staff turnover as a result, but we exclude students for fighting and swearing at teachers.

Why do parents have such low expectations of their kids and their behaviour. He was rude, laughing and could see she was struggling. In Y11 he should know better than to contribute to the chaotic situation that was unravelling.

I'd leave it with school. He laughed at what was happening, which is unkind. He's going to have to suck it up a d learn from it hopefully.

I don't think teachers lie to get people in detention. I do think they are human. They can't be everywhere at once, and they can overreact and treat people unfairly - especially when they are not coping, and given op's update, that's entirely possible.

And given op's son's background of good behavior, and insistence that he didn't behave the way that he is being punished for - do we just assume he's lying? Or do we try to get to the truth?

I agree with you.

Or fs had similar at end of Yr 10.
A lad accused him of taking his phone. He hadn't and didn't know who had . The lad kept ' having a go ' until both voices were raised and the teacher stepped in. She told ds to hand the phone over, he repeated te didn't have it, had never had it (several times). He was then sent from the class. Teacher came out and he was reprimanded / given detention , for his attitude to the teacher in front of others.
He has suspected dyspraxia, asd. He has an ILP (not ehcp) which sets all his difficulties and how his school will support/deal with him.
I was called because he became so distressed. A lovely staff member spoke with me and fs and totally understood why he had become upset. I politely reminded them of the plan THEY designed for him and how none of that had been followed and due to that he would not be doing detention.
He agreed to apologise when the teacher admitted they were wrong to repeatedly accuse him even though he was telling the truth. (We do talk about social interactions, speaking yo adult etc)
Lots of things are black and white for him as well and feeling he has been treated unfairly is really a trigger for him.
I would show your son you support him, even if it's just by an email to the teacher or to the HoY. Ours is great and he always encourages to approach the school when needed.

I am a teacher. It is tricky. It could be that he is rewriting history because he is annoyed at the sanction and also perhaps with himself for getting involved. It could also be that the teacher has made a mistake. However, making a huge fuss about it is not going to help. I always say to students who come to moan about other teachers to me - sometimes you get away with things because the teacher doesn't notice, sometimes you don't. It balances out in the end. People may have different perspectives. In essence do the detention and put it behind you. Sometimes nice, usually well behaved kids get involved in something silly. They then get v upset at what happened as they regret it. This sometimes involves trying to wriggle out of it somehow!

I think the idea that the teacher is lying about him mocking her or using a silly voice is by the way ridiculous. The teacher is not going to make a mistake about this!

If he was NT I would encourage him to fight his own battles

As his ND i would back him on this.

I hate this behaviour from (mostly) boys.
They take each other's stuff, move it round the room to wind each other up. They're up out of their seats, pissing around, distracting others. Then they go "Oh it's only banter, I was just moving a bag".

No, no you weren't. You're being bloody disruptive, annoying people, stopping learning happening and then minimise behaviour when you're called out on it. Back the school and tell your child to stop being a twat.

Bit different as much younger but dsis was once wrongly accusrd of something at primary... Dm had her back and it has come up since in adulthood with her saying it was unfair and glad she was supported. It stuck with her. I'd probably support him even if you think it's a bit "storm in a teacup" for the sake of your relationship with him... At 15 he needs to start learning to handle things like this by himself so perhaps saying you believe him and coaching him through how to approach speaking to teacher etc rather than attending any meetings with him could be a compromise. If the asd means it would be appropriate to approach this more as you would with a younger child though you could ignore that last bit.

On the basis you know your DS, he is ND and never done anything like this before and the strength of his feeling - I would back him up.

My parents always thought the worst of me (looking back I was so well behaved too - not one detention) and never had my back. It does stick with you.

I've always dealt with this by telling my son he's free to take it up with the teacher himself. If I thought a particular teacher was continually singling my son out I'd get involved.

However this has never appeared to be the case so I trust the teachers judgement in these situations.

Tricky. I’m a teacher and sometimes I make mistakes and give a detention to the wrong person if it’s got a bit chaotic. I always apologise and remove the sanction if I’ve got it wrong! I’d rather it was brought to my attention if I’ve blamed the wrong kid.

Well whatever was going on, not much learning was happening, was it?

Oh gosh this is a hard one! My daughter is NT but has a very finely tuned sense of injustice. I have backed her on a few occasions and on others given her a lot of sympathy and support but tried to make her see it probably just wasn't worth the battle. I also really feel for teachers in these situations as they can't have eyes everywhere and also don't want to seem weak if challenged or they could lose control of the class. I hope he sorts it tomorrow - and at 15 it should really be him who sorts it (with your support).

It's just a detention. Kids get them at my son's school for every minor infraction including tone of voice or even vaguely talking back.

I'm usually very much on the side of kids v teachers ! But in this case I think your son could just accept the teacher was in a bad mood he pissef them off and now he should just do the detention and accept sometimes life isn't totally how we want it to be

I have am autistic child and I do really try to help her be more flexible in how she sees injustice in the world. It's not helpful to teach a child to constantly argue with adults