To have reservations about a friendship with a woman who refers to Israel's actions in Gaza as a genocide?

[Oodiks]

I like this woman a lot, but we have very differing world views, specifically her belief that Israel is committing genocide in Gaza.

We work at a university and were coming back from lunch together when she commented that she was pleased the protestors hadn't come back. I agreed, noting how nerve wracking it must have been for Jewish students on campus to run the gauntlet of pro-Palestinian / anti-Zionist posters in the encampment.

We'd been talking about the American election over lunch, and I thought we'd agreed that Kamala Harris was the better candidate for her views on climate change, if nothing else, but then my 'friend' commented on Biden/Harris sending arms "to support the genocide" and I was left kind of speechless.

Am I being unreasonable to feel unsure about continuing this friendship?

Do you think we should hold Israel to the same standard as North Korea or other democracies like Israel claims to be? Take your pick

@Oodiks I think its fair to infer you don't have a problem with a vicious far right regime controlling Isreal.

Thousands agree with me, in Isreal, this regime is out of control and has to be stopped before they escalate all out war with potentially thousands of Isrealis dying. History teaches us whenever the far right take control, it ends with blood for its people.

As I said, genocide is a legal term and a side issue, Netanyahu, like Putin, is a monster.

Sadly, the two go hand in hand. When Israel is criticized, Jews are attacked. I'd call that antisemitism.

This will never ever be solved if even those in a country far away have such entrenched and polarised and binary views.

These threads are going over the same points over and over again and they are just stoking more hatred and division. It's like they want literally everyone to pick a side and stick with it.

What did you hope to achieve with thread?

Ah ok, didn't realise there were threads like this deliberately started. Blimey. I'll bow out then 😊

Please can someone explain why it's not genocide?

You're worried about being friends with someone who speaks the truth and calls a genocide a genocide?! Yeah, you probably shouldn't be friends with her. For her sake.

Fake account

At the moment the genocide is alleged as it's under investigation but it fulfils the definition of genocide.

I don’t hold Jewish people accountable for the action of the Israeli government any more than I would blame Muslims for an act of extremism by someone Muslim. Or for the actions of Iran.
or Catholics for the actions of the IRA, or English people for the murder or civilians by British paratroopers.
get the difference OP?

You have your views and she has hers. We can't and never will all agree with the same thing. Maybe she doesn't like your views either, how would you feel if she turned around and said "oh I don't want to be your friend anymore due to your views on certain things" I have a friend who has different views to me on many things and we just don't talk about things like that over lunch anymore and we are still friends. Either get over it or lose your friend, it's up to you.

Those are two very different things. How about standing up and speaking out about what Israel is doing is not in the name of Jewish people.

Sadly, the two go hand in hand. When Israel is criticized, Jews are attacked. I'd call that antisemitism.

So criticising Israel is inherently antisemitic? So Israel could do whatever they wanted and then if anyone questioned it they just shout "antisemitism". That sounds like a very dangerous position.

Then you demonstrate that you know nothing about the history and definitions of War Crimes.

What have you studied about the War Crimes conducted in Nurembourg that set the Legal Precedents for such criminality? How many gave been tried since then under those Precedents?

War is ghastly, terrible, beyond belief. Innocents die in the thousands every single time.

On all sides.

Show me a single country in the entire world that has clean hands. Just one.

Are all victors in a War committing Genocide?

The intent is to eliminate the Palestinian population though and that has been said in the Knesset.

It’s certainly a very convenient position. Though some might say over-used to the point of exhaustion at this stage.

With that logic, no criticism of the Israel is possible without it being antisemitic....... which is clearly utter nonsense.

Yes, and this rule ONLY applies to Israel. Apparently it's absolutely fine to criticise literally any other country on earth, but Israel is off limits, because if you criticise Israel then you're antisemetic. Even if you're Jewish. Apparently. 🙄

Imagine that the Israeli government can commit an actual genocide, ignoring the protests of their own population, and yet call anyone who disagrees with them antisemetic.

It's such a joke.

https://apple.news/AZCPmqPCKQr6fMJLNEtMUJA

By Gideon Levy Oct 06, 2024 12:13 AM
(Gideon Levy is an Israeli journalist and author who writes opinion pieces and a weekly column for Haaretz on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.)

“But ahead of the anniversary, the time has come to heal a little; to open our eyes to what has happened since. We must admit, belatedly, that when talking about the "massacre," it is not only the one of October 7. Theone that followed is multifold greater and more horrifying.”

”It is amazing how a country of absolute mourning dares to so shamelessly deny the existence of another bereavement and considers it illegitimate.
Even the Russians love their children, sang Sting, but tell that to the Israelis who are convinced that the Palestinians do not. I have covered the mourning of the Palestinian people for decades, and I can emphatically declare that they mourn just like us. Bereaved parents are bereaved parents, but you cannot even say that to Israelis, especially not in the past year, when they are huddled in their bereavement and are not willing to listen to anything else.
The past year, a year of great mourning, has elevated these tendencies to unrecognizable heights. A year of heartrending stories about hostages and tales of unceasing supreme heroism, death, heroism and quite a bit of kitsch. I do not mean to make light of the individual and national grief, but when it becomes almost the only issue, for such a long time, it seems it is meant to distract and divert from the main point.
My throat chokes when I read Oren Agmon's noble, moving words. My throat chokes no less at the sound of bereaved fathers in the West Bank and Gaza.
At the end of a year of mourning, it is necessary to get up from the shiva for October 7 and start to look ahead to a place we can go to - whose whereabouts are utterly unknown to anyone - instead of only hearing the words of Israel's heroism and ceaseless mourning.”

Of course, just like when a black person commits a terrible crime , blacks are attacked, look what happened over summer when those poor little girls were killed by a non-white boy.

Plenty of anti Isreal hate is tied up with anti-Semitism, and this has to be spoken up.

My partner is Jewish , my children half Jewish, but I despise the current gov in Isreal, they are intent on all out war and illegal expansion of the state, and they will kill thousands of young conscripts in their twisted aims of war at all costs.

She's better off without you

You can be friends with who you want but I don’t see the issue. I have friends who refer to themselves as zionists and other friends who refer to a death rate of over 40,000 as a genocide (however you describe it it’s hardly an even “war”.) I don’t see the issue with either but that’s me. You are free to determine what values you will have and the people you will associate with based on those values.

(If your fear is that you think she is anti-Semitic then I would need to see evidence of actual hatred of Jewish people as opposed to criticism of the way Israel is choosing to wage war in Gaza.)

So, to understand fully, are you saying that all criticism of the actions of Israel’s government is fundamentally antisemitic?