To have reservations about a friendship with a woman who refers to Israel's actions in Gaza as a genocide?

[Oodiks]

I like this woman a lot, but we have very differing world views, specifically her belief that Israel is committing genocide in Gaza.

We work at a university and were coming back from lunch together when she commented that she was pleased the protestors hadn't come back. I agreed, noting how nerve wracking it must have been for Jewish students on campus to run the gauntlet of pro-Palestinian / anti-Zionist posters in the encampment.

We'd been talking about the American election over lunch, and I thought we'd agreed that Kamala Harris was the better candidate for her views on climate change, if nothing else, but then my 'friend' commented on Biden/Harris sending arms "to support the genocide" and I was left kind of speechless.

Am I being unreasonable to feel unsure about continuing this friendship?

This!

I don't believe this is a genuine thread for a second.

Someone with strong and forceful opinions like this would not be friends with someone who calls it a genocide, and would not ask AIBU.

@Disturbtheuniverse

"OP, do you honestly not see that the mass killing of at least 40,000 innocent people, including 14,000 children is a genocide or does it just bother you that people do care about Arab people dying too?"

Firstly the figure from the Hamas Health Ministry of 41,000 Palestinians killed since 7 October includes members of the designated terrorist group Hamas. The figure does not distinguish between Hamas terrorists and civilians so not all of those 41k are innocent civilians.

Secondly it is certainly is tragic that a large number of civilians have died in Gaza but it does raise the question of why no one is protesting for example the much larger numbers of about a million Uighars being kept in concentration camps which is a real example of genocide where the Chinese government wishes to eradicate the Uighgars. Or the ethnic cleansing by Pakistan of forcibly expelling one million Afghan refugees into Afghanistan.

Let's be honest here the reason why the deaths of Palestinian civilians receives greater outrage is simply because it is being done by Jews and because Israel receives western support . It's not about the numbers involved.

Your last paragraph is a joke, right?

No. It's because it's being going on for decades. There is a large diaspora that had to flee. The lucky ones ended up in the West. Their children are outraged and vocal. Their colleagues, peers, are mortified on their behalf. So they protest loudly.

No one gives a fuck what anyones religion is. I dont care if you worshiped the Flying Spaghetti Monster. If you cage, torture, and murder people en masse it is orchestrated genocide. That is supported by Western powers.

Your logic is akin to a lawyer saying "but he's a catholic!" as murder defense.

Well it IS a genocide.

I was looking for opinions on continuing a friendship with someone I like very much but fundamentally disagree with, I found a lot of pro-Palestinians telling me what an awful human I am and telling me that my friend would be better off without me.

I was looking for opinions on continuing a friendship with someone I like very much but fundamentally disagree with, I found a lot of pro-Palestinians telling me what an awful human I am and telling me that my friend would be better off without me.

It's not even really about being pro Palestinian it's about being pro humanitarian and that is why people will not be able to look you in the eye when you seek to justify and defend the civilian death toll. It's about being human, not being politically right or wrong.

So, you don't think I'm human because I think Israel has a right to defend itself from surrounding countries that want to destroy it and kill all Jews?

Got it.

Its not about you, or your religion, or your daughters religion. You're dismissing genocide which is what people are saying is awful.

You dont seem to want to understand that from a bunch of "pro-palestinians". I vote dont be her friend. Shes better off without your presence.

You started an AIBU thread and dismissed peoples responses. That alone highlights your disingenuity.

It's so sad that you think this manipulative gymnastics with peoples words is clever and a good way to have a discussion. It's how teenagers argue with their boyfriends in American TV shows.

Honestly, only a handful of people actually addressed the question, which is about maintaining (or not) friendships with people who hold radically different views.

@thedodo

"No one gives a fuck what anyones religion is. I dont care if you worshiped the Flying Spaghetti Monster. If you cage, torture, and murder people en masse it is orchestrated genocide"

But logically on that basis shouldn't there be greater outrage at an actual genocide against one million Uighars or the ethnic cleansing of one million Afghans by Pakistan given that the numbers are so so much higher than the loss of civilian life in Gaza?

@Oodiks for some strange reason, Israel isn't allowed to win. It must maintain a strange status quo in the Middle East where it's under constant existential threat, all out war is viewed as the worst possible thing, terrorist aggressors aren't held to account and extreme Islamist governments are able to stay in power, against the wishes of the majority of their populations. I'm mystified.

That isn’t remotely the same thing as we’re discussing here. You’ve taken one line from a post explaining why Israel shouldn’t be targeting civilians in Gaza and have clearly not understood the issue.

Indeed.

We all did. You didnt ask how do I maintain a friendship with someone with differing political views than me?

you said " specifically her belief that Israel is committing genocide in Gaza".

you do understand that many many people have been murdered in horrible ways. Lebanon has been invaded to no response. The UN is outraged, the ICJ is outraged, the US and the UK are finally showing signs of discomfort. People are upset. Many people consider it a genocide. Hence the responses.

you asked if you are being unreasonable and many people have respectfully explained why they think you are. It's very tedious this going around in circles. It's not cute, or clever, or coy, or funny. Its sad.

You're right. People have stood by and allowed such atrocities to continue, China hasn't been ostracised because of trade. The West has always been hypocritical.

In this case, the West is supporting and arming a perpetrator of genocide which is bombing countries indiscriminately. In the case of Putin we accepted refugees and imposed penalties. However Russia is seen as a threat to the West.

Israel is a Western ally because of shared intelligence and has the full force of the US behind it and other Western powers. The US has spent years bombing the ME and doesn't care about the Palestinians, they are happy for Israel to take on Iran and other terrorist groups.

So what's keeping you here?

Here we go. I'm leaving this thread after this post because you are beyond help.

Israel has a right to defend itself. As many others on this thread have told you, what Israel is doing currently cannot be characterised as self defence. The civilian death toll, particularly children (and the targeting of children) is unacceptable and a stain on our humanity. I don’t feel the need to be in any way equivocal about the fact that the actions of the IDF and Israeli Government are wrong and disproportionate. Nothing can justify it.

I am against anti semitism and I am pro Palestinian. You can be both. The position is not binary. So far I have seen nothing from you that indicates you feel a shred of empathy towards what is happening to the people of Gaza. That in itself is inhumane. Some might say you sound a bit islamaphobic. Personally, I think your friend has had a lucky escape.

First of all, what-about-ism is so disingenuous. If you were a Uighar, or an Afghani you might have a point. But you're using it as an argument to distract and justify. Consider me a Palestinian. I'm saying the killing of my people is genocide. My mother, my aunts, my brothers, my children. You'd respond with but wait the Chinese are also doing it to the Uyghars so accept it?

Second of all, why is outrage only awarded to the number of civilians to be killed? When do you think people should be outraged about what is happening in Palestine? What number would satisfy you?

Do you know the history of Western involvement in Afghanistan and the region?

A phobia is an irrational fear, I don't think it's irrational to fear the type of Islam practiced in the Palestinian Territories, Yemen, Lebanon, Iran, and the rest. I like my freedoms, and I like Western values such as equality, and freedom of speech.

No-one should be allowed to "win" at a war involving the genocide of people. Extremists terrorist groups are a response to occupation and suppression.

Oh please - The use of the word 'Human shield' is dehumanising as is 'collateral damage'. Non discriminate bombing of Palestinians is genocide as it's ethnic cleansing of a group of people. Israel is blatantly committing war crimes in plain sight.