To have reservations about a friendship with a woman who refers to Israel's actions in Gaza as a genocide?

[Oodiks]

I like this woman a lot, but we have very differing world views, specifically her belief that Israel is committing genocide in Gaza.

We work at a university and were coming back from lunch together when she commented that she was pleased the protestors hadn't come back. I agreed, noting how nerve wracking it must have been for Jewish students on campus to run the gauntlet of pro-Palestinian / anti-Zionist posters in the encampment.

We'd been talking about the American election over lunch, and I thought we'd agreed that Kamala Harris was the better candidate for her views on climate change, if nothing else, but then my 'friend' commented on Biden/Harris sending arms "to support the genocide" and I was left kind of speechless.

Am I being unreasonable to feel unsure about continuing this friendship?

No. It makes Israel culpable. There is a clear definition of human shielding under international law. Various investigations have concluded that Hamas’ use of civilian locations to fire rockets, etc, doesn’t meet that definition. So Israel should not be targeting civilians.

yes, Hammas and The IDF are Both culpable

Par for the course on MN. No cogent argument ? Just throw insults. Depressing.

Of course it is. How else to explain the fact that before this current war even started, there were more UN resolutions criticising Israel than resolutions criticising all the other countries in the world put together.

Just think about all the violent, murderous, repressive, undemocratic, racist, homophobic, misogynist regimes in the world. But apparently, according to the UN, even if you add them all together Israel was worse. Perhaps that makes sense to you, but it doesn’t to me.

Not according to the international community. Hamas’ use of civilian locations doesn’t meet the definition of human shielding under international law. So these civilians are not legitimate targets. Israel are committing a war crime.

https://youtube.com/shorts/i8m2ADSOXA8?si=UVmENH1L-e-2olx6

Have a look at those resolutions and you’ll see why Israel were criticised. But then again no, easier to accuse the UN of being ant Semitic than actually understand the criticisms.

I agree with you - too late to vote! Just wanted to offer my support as I’m sure it’s tough on campus.

It makes no difference whether it’s got the title "human shielding" or not.

Israel are not targeting civilians. They’re targeting the rocket launchers etc. that you admit Hamas site in civilian locations.

I don’t think the UK government are supporting those regimes are they?

Some of these resolutions were put through multiple times because the US would use its power to veto them. Resolutions passed against other states who deserved it were not granted this same shielding. Majority were vetoed hence the need to put them through again.

Using civilians as human shields doesn’t protect them, it just makes the civilians legitimate targets

Where do people get these ideas

The use of human shields is a war crime. That does not mean the attacking party can slaughter them, they are still civilians and the principles of necessity, distinction and proportionality apply.

It’s a war against terrorism, not really sure how anyone can consider it genocide. If Palestine wasn’t so pro terrorist then it would be heartbreaking.

People have very different views on this, most agree that there's fault on both sides and that the outcome is utterly horrific. I can see how it could be argued that the killing of so many innocent civilians who've just been caught out in the fallout of this power struggle is 'genocide' although I should think that technically it isn't. Not worth falling out over with your friend though, just change the subject and move on.

we're not talking about what is proportionate to population size. We're talking about whether the Israeli governments actions and death toll are a proportionate response.

A country can't have an opinion. Individuals can. Collective punishment is a war crime, end of.

@Gemmy96 palestine is not a country, it’s a community. And the majority of that community are pro Hamas and want the eradication of Israel so the community as a whole are supportive of terrorism. They can and should be accountable, the same way all of Russia has been punished and sanctioned for the actions of Putins terrorism in Ukraine.

How do you explain the legitimate and verified accounts of the deliberate targeting of civilians and children, like Hind Rajab and plenty others?

By that logic of that poster why are the IDF not bombing where Sinwar hides? It's been said on Israeli news that he is hiding amongst the hostages ie using them as human shields.

This is insane.

the majority of Palestinians do not support Hamas. In any event, even if they did that doesn't legitimise the killing of civilians.

And you don’t see a problem with the unequal treatment.

Ok, so you do think Israel is worse than all the violent, murderous, repressive, undemocratic, racist, homophobic, misogynist regimes in the world put together.

How odd. I wonder if the Uighurs, the Yazidis, the hundreds of thousands killed in Syria, the over 200,000 dead under the Houthis in Yemen, the gay people persecuted and murdered in so many countries, the female half of the populations of Iran and, much worse, Afghanistan (to just name a few) would agree with you.

Never said that, but maybe if Israel decided to hand back the Palestinian land they're illegally occupying things might be different, why won't they do that? You can hardly expect the Palestinians to sit back and not react can you? That's how terrorism is born

have you been living under a rock? This is now widely accepted to be a false story used to start a war. www.lemonde.fr/en/les-decodeurs/article/2024/04/03/40-beheaded-babies-the-itinerary-of-a-rumor-at-the-heart-of-the-information-battle-between-israel-and-hamas_6667274_8.html