To have reservations about a friendship with a woman who refers to Israel's actions in Gaza as a genocide?

[Oodiks]

I like this woman a lot, but we have very differing world views, specifically her belief that Israel is committing genocide in Gaza.

We work at a university and were coming back from lunch together when she commented that she was pleased the protestors hadn't come back. I agreed, noting how nerve wracking it must have been for Jewish students on campus to run the gauntlet of pro-Palestinian / anti-Zionist posters in the encampment.

We'd been talking about the American election over lunch, and I thought we'd agreed that Kamala Harris was the better candidate for her views on climate change, if nothing else, but then my 'friend' commented on Biden/Harris sending arms "to support the genocide" and I was left kind of speechless.

Am I being unreasonable to feel unsure about continuing this friendship?

Funny how you claim to have been disconcerted by your "friend"'s comment and you came here "to think it through" and yet you're utterly wedded to your belief that any criticism of the Israeli regime (even from Israelis!) is anti-semitism, but don't mind displaying your bigotry by labelling those of us who disagree with you "Hamas apologists".

To be absolutely clear: I think Hamas and Hezbollah are appalling terrorist organisations whose actions should be condemned by all right-minded people. I think Netanyahu's absolute disregard for innocent civilian life and his disproportionate response in Gaza and Lebanon is appalling and should be condemned by all right-minded people. These two views are not mutually exclusive - they can both be true and believed by decent people who abhor blood-shed.

And you totally missed the point being made here. The person I replied to was claiming that Hamas' demands for the release of Israeli hostages were "unrealistic" and this showed they weren't serious about releasing them. I pointed out that Israel had previously released 1000 Palestinians in return for just 1 Israeli soldier, so why wouldn't they do so now if they're serious about securing the release of 100 Israeli hostages?

The truth is, Netanyahu isn't interested in negotiating for the release of the remaining hostages and Israelis who are demonstrating against him on the streets of Jerusalem know this. He's only interested in hanging on to power - at all costs.

Try to "think it through" a bit harder.

Today I listened to LBC with James O. Brien, which made me cry because everything you have written is absolutely true. Because a old couple in their seventies was killed, and they lived in a kibbutz not sure if spelling . Anyway, they were peace campaigners, and their children have followed the same path, but did you know that not one of the Israeli government has reached out to see if they are okay? The only ones that have a palestinian israel people in the government. This is because they are not looking for revenge. They are looking for peace. Because that's what the parents would have done. So actually they even say and acknowledge that what Benjamin is doing is wrong. I agree with you that if we want peace. The leader of Israel and Hamas and Hezbollah. Need to go because they all are propping each other up

Again, I do not think criticism of Israel is inherently antisemitic, I do think that people attacking Jews and Jewish concerns because they disagree with Israel’s actions are antisemitic.

How do you explain the rise in attacks on Jews and Jewish concerns (businesses, schools, synagogues) since October 7th last year?

Of course that's a concern - because the people who do "hold all Jews responsible for Israel's actions" ARE anti-semites!

Dear God, I'm not sure if you're being deliberately obtuse or just plain thick. Anti-semites do not need any action of any sort by the Israeli government to justify their attacks on Jews simply because they firmly believe that their bigoted anti-semitic views are justifiable in and of themselves (they're absolutely not). Anti-semites exist and act on their repugnant views regardless of what the Israeli government does or doesn't do.

You seem more than happy to believe that anyone criticising the Israeli government must be an anti-semite - this is absolutely untrue and you should be ashamed of yourself for trying to make such an argument as it's also utterly bigoted.

Again, I do not think criticism of Israel is inherently antisemitic, I do think that people attacking Jews and Jewish concerns because they disagree with Israel’s actions are antisemitic.

How do you explain the rise in attacks on Jews and Jewish concerns (businesses, schools, synagogues) since October 7th last year?

"How do you explain the rise in attacks on Jews and Jewish concerns (businesses, schools, synagogues) since October 7th last year?"

Anti-semites have become emboldened - in the same way neo-nazis were emboldened by the Southport stabbings.

Same way they were emboldened in 1930s Germany?

Thanks.

Maybe people think the allies should’ve been more proportionate when destroying the Nazi regime.

To answer your question @Oodiks the only thing you can do is hold yourself accountable about how you are taking her comments. In the kindest possible way, your individual interpretation of the situation around Gaza is incredibly unimportant and will have absolutely no effect on the outcome.

If you otherwise like this person, you can designate this a no-go area until you both are able to have the conversation respectfully. When I feel very strongly on a subject, I find that being hard on my own opinions is essential to be able to engage on good faith. For example, why is it that you are more empathetic with one side of the conflict than the other. Is it personal, and is this clouding your judgement? Can you trust your sources of information, or could they be biased? What is the other side saying and why?

Why do you assume I have no empathy for the Palestinian people? I have enough empathy to wish they were freed from Hamas rule; it’s a death cult.

Personally I think using ‘genocide’ here closes down the possibility of reasonable conversation.

I haven't designated your empathy to one side or the other. I said that when I very engaged in a topic it's a chance for me to examine my own biases.

From your responses you are interested in only having your views validated. This is not how friendships work. True friendship is when you have to accept, they may look at a situation differently from you but care enough about you to behave in a respectful way.

You are delusional.

This is something you can examine. Why is the use of the work "genocide" so upsetting for you. Is it because genocide is such a heinous act and you know a lot of people who are Jewish and you think this isn't fair for them.

I am British and live in a formerly commonwealth country. It has been incredibly difficult for me to hear the acts of the British people (who I have been taught to revere and be proud of) be called genocide. It means to me that somehow, I must be part of a genocidal culture, which then causes me to feel incredible shame.

“For example, why is it that you are more empathetic with one side of the conflict than the other”

I object to the term because it is inaccurate and misused.

No, of course not, this is an entirely false comparison. 1930s Germany was a rich country led by an anti-semitic autocrat who led those citizens of a like mind (and terrorised those who weren't) into committing genocide against the minority Jewish population of its own society. Israel obviously has no such desire to annihilate its own Jewish citizens and is a rich country with rich, powerful allies who will continue to support it in protecting itself from enemy states.

Can you acknowledge that it is causing an emotional reaction in you?

Genocide is one of those terms that has a specific meaning but is often used casually to describe something similar i.e. The person could mean simply just mean mass killing rather than for the specifically for erasure of an ethnic group.

If you wanted to continue this conversation with this friend, you could ask her why she thinks it is genocide? This will tell you whether she is using it casually or if she has a specific reason.

Yes, that’s one reason the word is used.

People using the argument ‘Israelis should know all about genocide so it makes what they are doing even more terrible’ ought to have a jolly good think about 1) whether that makes sense, and 2) why they feel the need to say it.

People who shriek about accusations of antisemitism being used to shut down criticism of the Israeli government should be reassured that if that’s the aim, it’s not working - virtually everybody criticises the Israeli government!

I’m talking about attacks on Jews and Jewish concerns outside of Israel.

There is a rise in attacks against Jews because some people wrongly blame all Jews for the genocide in Gsza.

That is wrong but it doesn’t mean it’s not a genocide.

An obscure academic opinion, you are either very well informed or completely ignorant. Can't decide. But the whole thread is baity with an sketchy backstory soooo....

Where? In the UK? Do you believe Sir Keir Starmer is going to initiate the wholesale annihilation of Jews in the UK? Like I said, the comparison to 1930s Germany is entirely false.

How is it not genocide? Israeli army has killed a massive percentage of the population of Gaza. Israeli armies are starving innocent children, killing vulnerable people, cutting off medical supplies, disease is rife as a direct result.

She identifies as being half Jewish and she and I would have both been sent to the camps in 30s Germany, so not a particularly obscure academic opinion.