Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think more people do have autism nowadays?

214 replies

malificent7 · 07/10/2024 05:46

Everyone says it's because more people are being diagosed which is true BUT I am waiiting for my assessment , my sdd ( not genetically related) has it and 2 of my close school friends have children with it severely enough so that they can't attend mainstream.
Obviously several members of my family have it as it is genetic but it does seem odd that my 2 close school friends ( who dont have asd) have children with it.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
7
perfectstorm · 07/10/2024 09:27

I sometimes wonder if autism isn't more common partly because society has changed in ways that make autistic people more likely to be employed successfully. Historically, most work was physical and relied on strength and dexterity, and traditional social skills. Autistic people are far more likely than average to be hypermobile and dyspraxic. The hyper focus and pattern recognition strengths also more common with autistic people aren't as helpful for someone who has to do manual work - and monotropism, the inability to stay focused and diligent on things that bore you, isn't ideal in that labour market, either. But switch them to a world where IT skills and engineering are open to anyone who can learn, and you have high functioning autistic people who manage to survive (albeit with suffering and with a lot of anti-depressants) the horrors of school, find their niche at university, and then go on to work in specialised fields that value their skills. They then meet people who share their interests and values, double their earning capacity, and go on to have families - and autism is genetic, so two autistic people with more subtle presentations will more than likely have kids whose traits are clearer. It's also possible that non-autistic people with 'soft traits' are having kids together, and the genetics will combine to mean their kids are diagnosable.

I went to Cambridge. My husband was at Cambridge, too. Neither of us were diagnosed, though clearly both autistic. The same goes for many peers there - many of whom married contemporaries they started dating in those years. Of our college friends, I know of seven families who have autistic kids, and another my husband and I are quietly certain will have their kids diagnosed shortly. All of us have kids whose needs are markedly greater than our own, and impossible to miss. They aren't going under any radars. Given the number who married college contemporaries, that makes 12 people who were at university with us whose kids are at EHCP level autism. And those are just the ones with whom we're still in touch, whose kids are diagnosed already. There will, clearly, be many more.

In the past, a lot of autistic people would have been seen as weird and awkward and not marriageable. Some still are, of course. But you're a lot more likely to be seen as quirky and oddball but still able to find a partner in a world where your interests and skills carry a financial bonus, and that means you're likelier to have kids, too. The internet has also made it easier to meet those who share your interests, and also legitimised special interests and geek culture in a way that is new in its universality. And by definition, you're likelier to marry someone who shares your outlook and your interests, and/or your employer. So if we are indeed finding more and more couples with both parties autistic... is it really amazing that we are also finding more autistic people being born? And now diagnostic criteria are being honed, is it surprising that the greater numbers are also being accurately identified, too?

Autism is both strength and deficit. It's a disability, no question. My kids have a lot of associated physical and neurodevelopmental problems, and my son was supported too late and has the PTSD diagnosis to show for that. But they also have extraordinary IQs. My daughter's is 99.9th centile. Her NHS paediatrics reports list "extremely gifted" alongside her other, less positive key factors at the start of any reports. She was assessed as having a reading age of 19 yrs 11 months at 6, after being found in the reading tent at preschool polishing off The Enchanted Wood in her head - nobody had taught her to read, and that was how everyone found out she could. She's Matilda - also hyperlexic, and, for the record, 90% of hyperlexic kids are also autistic. And while most autistic kids aren't gifted, I know enough who are to believe that the overlap is undeniable. There's a (very brief) brilliant discussion on this by Andrew Solomon Autism is abnormality, but it persists in our gene pool because autistic people offer a different way of viewing the world that can, in some contexts, carry massive strengths and advantages. And in a world where those strengths are now monetised, I am not surprised that it is increasing. We're employable. We have value to capitalism. And we're marrying one another. As I joked to a friend, we're breeding a new master race of autistic kids.* You're welcome! Admittedly, my son can barely leave the house due to anxiety, but he's going great guns with the quadratic equation research while he's home.

*Probably worth contextualising this: my husband is Jewish, and the friend I was joking to is Muslim, of Iranian/Bangladeshi descent. We both have autistic kids and are both in EHCP appeals. Dark humour is a survival strategy.

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music that you love, upload original content and share it all with friends, family and the world on YouTube.

https://youtu.be/HgzsTtP0qes?feature=shared

JanewaysBun · 07/10/2024 09:28

When i was filling out my son's referral form i answered the question about ND traits in my family, and then suddenly had an "ooooooohhhhh" moment, i think modern day pressures highlight it more. My dad used to go for random hikes in his working day (he travelled around having meetings for his job) which nobody noticed/cared about and allowed him time to reset himself. I definitely didn't do spelling tests and maths hwk in Y1. (My dad actually got 0 qualifications but still landed a good job)

It's only in my 30s i have realised that my family are a ND, i thought everyone was like us!

mollyfolk · 07/10/2024 09:44

In my unlearned opinion I think other mental health difficulties can be misdiagnosed as autism. Kids do seem to struggle with social stuff more and I have often wondered if there is a lack of free play with others going on. People are living more isolated lives and kids often only socialise in structured environments. I think the positive impacts of outdoor play and free play with mixed ages can not be underestimated and should be supported at a societal level.

There is such a variance in symptoms. The fact that someone can be non verbal and struggle with normal daily tasks and have high care needs is diagnosed with the same thing as someone who struggles to make eye contact and doesn't like loud noises doesn't really make sense to me.

But they are very random thoughts from my head with no basis in science.

honeylulu · 07/10/2024 09:48

IMO, it’s the other way round. Women are misdiagnosed with Borderline Personality Disorder, when in fact their mental health problems are due to struggling their whole life, but especially through school with undiagnosed ADHD and/or autism.

Yes this! See also anxiety. My social awkwardness makes me very anxious (it was a lot worse when I was younger and struggling with masking). I am sure I don't actually have an anxiety disorder though I can imagine it might have been easy to misdiagnose me with one had I sought help earlier, when less was known about how ASD/ADHD presents in females.

perfectstorm · 07/10/2024 09:50

mollyfolk · 07/10/2024 09:44

In my unlearned opinion I think other mental health difficulties can be misdiagnosed as autism. Kids do seem to struggle with social stuff more and I have often wondered if there is a lack of free play with others going on. People are living more isolated lives and kids often only socialise in structured environments. I think the positive impacts of outdoor play and free play with mixed ages can not be underestimated and should be supported at a societal level.

There is such a variance in symptoms. The fact that someone can be non verbal and struggle with normal daily tasks and have high care needs is diagnosed with the same thing as someone who struggles to make eye contact and doesn't like loud noises doesn't really make sense to me.

But they are very random thoughts from my head with no basis in science.

You don't get an autism diagnosis just because you struggle socially. It's a lot, lot more complex than that. ADOS and DISCO are standardised and must be MDT, and there is a detailed history.

I think there is real lack of understanding around the diagnostic criteria tbh.

I would also point out that the general public determine severity of a disability on how that person's disability affects those around them. Perhaps it might help to consider it differently, and think about how the disability affects the person, themselves?

Nobody is diagnosed with autism because they struggle to make eye contact and don't like loud noises, either. That's not a thing.

SprigatitoYouAndIKnow · 07/10/2024 10:43

Part of me thinks it must be on the rise, especially given how many kids in ds1 school have it. It seems almost everyone I speak to suspects their child is nd, but then my child is, so their friends are more likely to be similar.

I also think with ds2 that yes school avoidance might have been less in the past, but due to different conditions. Primary schools tended to be smaller and not multi form entry. Teachers had more say over what they taught and the curriculum had less boring grammar. Why on earth they were trying to teach expanded noun phrases to a child that couldn't read "the" I will never know.

I do also think that authority has changed. If someone of my parents generation had acted how my son does, they would probably have been beaten quite severely at home and at school. If the terror of missing school is greater than the terror of going to school then you will get more compliance. Obviously not advocating that though!

Dramatic · 07/10/2024 10:48

I actually think Neuro diverse is the wrong word for it because I think it'll end up with so many people having it that it won't be "divergent from the norm" at all.

Nowordsformethanks · 07/10/2024 11:05

I do also think that authority has changed. If someone of my parents generation had acted how my son does, they would probably have been beaten quite severely at home and at school. If the terror of missing school is greater than the terror of going to school then you will get more compliance. Obviously not advocating that though!

I agree. Many adults now were beaten or neglected or disciplined/punished into submission, masking and internalising their distress/autistic behaviours as children. Nowadays it isn't so (rightly).

Heidi2018 · 07/10/2024 11:07

malificent7 · 07/10/2024 07:54

Just wondering how c sections would cause autism biologically? I will have to find some peer reviewed litetature on that one!

From my (fairly limited) research on it, there doesn't seem to be a conclusion of how or why yet, but just that there was an increased likelihood of autism in children born via section. I think the research on it is still heavily ongoing and relatively new, the % increase varies among different studies carried out but any I've read have shown an increase.

TwoLeggedGrooveMachine · 07/10/2024 11:13

More awareness but also the world is more challenging now. We have evolved to live in small communities but now live in a world where we are expected to interact with 100s of people, it’s noisy, information overload and pressure at school to not only comply but succeed. You can’t just do a basic job and plod along to retirement. Even low wage jobs require training, using tech, and require annual appraisal and continuous improvement. You can’t just ‘be’ anymore.

HeBeaverandSheBeaver · 07/10/2024 11:18

@perfectstorm

I love your post. So so right

TwoLeggedGrooveMachine · 07/10/2024 11:22

Nowordsformethanks · 07/10/2024 11:05

I do also think that authority has changed. If someone of my parents generation had acted how my son does, they would probably have been beaten quite severely at home and at school. If the terror of missing school is greater than the terror of going to school then you will get more compliance. Obviously not advocating that though!

I agree. Many adults now were beaten or neglected or disciplined/punished into submission, masking and internalising their distress/autistic behaviours as children. Nowadays it isn't so (rightly).

I had a couple of aunts and uncles beaten into submission in the 60s. They went on to have MH problems in adulthood and didn’t achieve what they were capable of. Very sad.

perfectstorm · 07/10/2024 11:24

Dramatic · 07/10/2024 10:48

I actually think Neuro diverse is the wrong word for it because I think it'll end up with so many people having it that it won't be "divergent from the norm" at all.

There's actually an interesting move towards calling those who aren't neurotypical "neurodivergent" as we are all "neurodiverse" - you're right. Having said that, by diagnostic definition to have an ND diagnosis, it needs to be disabling. The question is whether the disability is social (the world designed for a different neurotype) or inherent (medical model, with the disability part of the diagnosis, irrespective of setting). Personally, I think it's both.

JHound · 07/10/2024 11:24

malificent7 · 07/10/2024 05:46

Everyone says it's because more people are being diagosed which is true BUT I am waiiting for my assessment , my sdd ( not genetically related) has it and 2 of my close school friends have children with it severely enough so that they can't attend mainstream.
Obviously several members of my family have it as it is genetic but it does seem odd that my 2 close school friends ( who dont have asd) have children with it.

Could it be because people are having children later in life?

MarvellousMonsters · 07/10/2024 11:26

malificent7 · 07/10/2024 05:46

Everyone says it's because more people are being diagosed which is true BUT I am waiiting for my assessment , my sdd ( not genetically related) has it and 2 of my close school friends have children with it severely enough so that they can't attend mainstream.
Obviously several members of my family have it as it is genetic but it does seem odd that my 2 close school friends ( who dont have asd) have children with it.

It's just more widely recognised now.

TwoLeggedGrooveMachine · 07/10/2024 11:26

I read somewhere that ND people are better able to find like minded partners through uni or work than in previous generations where you would marry in your own small community. They are more likely to have ND children. I think this applies to DH are I first generation Uni on both sides. Both our DC are diagnosed ND. We aren’t diagnosed but strongly suspect we are both autistic. School was brutal for both of us.

Nowordsformethanks · 07/10/2024 11:28

TwoLeggedGrooveMachine · 07/10/2024 11:22

I had a couple of aunts and uncles beaten into submission in the 60s. They went on to have MH problems in adulthood and didn’t achieve what they were capable of. Very sad.

Oh yes very familiar with the many MH issues (due to childhood trauma from being undiagnosed autistic) that add onto the autism that many people struggle with as adults.

theresabluebirdinmyheart · 07/10/2024 11:35

TwoLeggedGrooveMachine · 07/10/2024 11:13

More awareness but also the world is more challenging now. We have evolved to live in small communities but now live in a world where we are expected to interact with 100s of people, it’s noisy, information overload and pressure at school to not only comply but succeed. You can’t just do a basic job and plod along to retirement. Even low wage jobs require training, using tech, and require annual appraisal and continuous improvement. You can’t just ‘be’ anymore.

Totally agree with this!

EdgeOfSixty · 07/10/2024 11:48

malificent7 · 07/10/2024 07:54

Just wondering how c sections would cause autism biologically? I will have to find some peer reviewed litetature on that one!

Gut biome of C Section babies is very different from those born vaginally.
www.science.org/content/article/swabbing-c-section-babies-mom-s-microbes-can-restore-healthy-bacteria

People with ASD often have gut issues and tend to have a different gut biome to those who are NT

www.nature.com/articles/s41598-023-50601-7

If not already undertaken, a study on prebiotics for CS babies could be an interesting study.

EliflurtleAndTheInfiniteMadness · 07/10/2024 12:00

malificent7 · 07/10/2024 06:02

Ekalf....that is a fairly high percentage...60%
Part of me wonders if I am drawn to people who are on the spectrum but my school friends are neuro typical.

I can't speak for my school friend, but most of the friends I've made as an adult are ND or have ND kids. We were drawn together by similar circumstances, mostly around our kids, but we also just click.

My DC are all Autistic, XH and I both have siblings who are probably autistic, I'm becoming more and more sure I have ADD, maybe Autism as well. Everyone I know with Autistic kids its somewhere in the family, often not diagnosed though. I know several people who have sought and got a diagnosis as an adult after their kids have been diagnosed. I know quite a few people in their late thirties to late forties who are probably Autistic and believe they are, but cant afford to seek a diagnosis or don't see the point of seeking one.

I think Autism and ADHD were massively under diagnosed in previous generations so we can't really say what's behind the increase in diagnoses. Of my 3 Autistic kids only one MIGHT have gotten a diagnosis 20 years ago, the other two certainly wouldn't have. There's no real way to work out historic levels of ND. You could look at current diagnoses in terms of if they'd have been diagnosed 20, 30, 40 years ago. Of the Autistic kids I know Id say it would be only a couple out of 20, 1 in 10 maybe. There's no way to know if that's representative. You could use family histories, but self reporting isnt terribly reliable.

I know a lot of Autistic kids, I know a lot of Autistic adults, but I don't think that's necessarily representive of the world at large. I'm connected to the wider ND community originally because of my kids, more so now because the people I get on best with seem to be ND, maybe mum's of ND kids share certain personality traits because of the genetic causes of Autism and ADHD, maybe we're all ND. I don't know the answer, but it's where i fit in.

Anyotherdude · 07/10/2024 12:03

Heracles, Orlando Furioso, King Lear, Ophelia, Mrs Rochester, Kathy in Wuthering Heights, Mrs Danvers and Rebecca, the Woman in White, Mr Dorritt in Little Dorritt , Crime and Punishment and many more books explore the psyche of people. Diagnosing and treating it have just taken a long time to catch up. I’m north of 60 but remember the children in school (normal mainstream) that just couldn’t fit in. It’s good that diagnosis, although still quite hard to get, is getting better now…

LizzieBowesLyon · 07/10/2024 12:07

ND here (adhd) and mum of 3 ND kids. My ex’s department at work was like the absolute distilled essence of autism, and yet there was not a diagnosis amongst any of them. Over 20 men (and Mad Sally) with all their quirks and ways of communicating (white board in the staff kitchen) and no one had ever been diagnosed.

HR in a cost saving exercise implemented a 2 days at home and 3 days in the office regime with hot desks and there were tears, and almost a riot. One guy stood next to “his” desk and refused point blank to move. The plan was scrapped but only for this department.

Would anyone like to guess which department this was?????

W1nt3ring · 07/10/2024 12:25

EdgeOfSixty · 07/10/2024 11:48

Gut biome of C Section babies is very different from those born vaginally.
www.science.org/content/article/swabbing-c-section-babies-mom-s-microbes-can-restore-healthy-bacteria

People with ASD often have gut issues and tend to have a different gut biome to those who are NT

www.nature.com/articles/s41598-023-50601-7

If not already undertaken, a study on prebiotics for CS babies could be an interesting study.

No they haven’t. None of us have in our family.Genetics is the biggest factor, not all these random spurious studies.

PepaWepa · 07/10/2024 12:29

There's a lot of studies that now show autism can be caused during pregnancy by several factors, including, but not limited to: air pollution, medication and pesticides. Also, formula feeding.
There is more of this now in the world than previously.

W1nt3ring · 07/10/2024 12:40

PepaWepa · 07/10/2024 12:29

There's a lot of studies that now show autism can be caused during pregnancy by several factors, including, but not limited to: air pollution, medication and pesticides. Also, formula feeding.
There is more of this now in the world than previously.

National Autistic Society

”Evidence suggests that autism may be genetic. Scientists have been attempting to identify which genes might be implicated in autism for some years. Autism is likely to have multiple genes responsible rather than a single gene. However, it is not caused by emotional deprivation or the way a person has been brought up.
There is no link between autism and vaccines. Much research has been devoted to this issue over the years and the results have comprehensively shown there is no link. Find out more on the NHS website.

nhs.uk

MMR (measles, mumps and rubella) vaccine

Find out about the MMR vaccine for measles, mumps and rubella, including who should have it, when it's given and possible side effects.

https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/vaccinations/mmr-vaccine/

Swipe left for the next trending thread