Baby P witch hunt

[the7Vabo]

I watched a full documentary on Tik Tok about Baby P today.

The thing I’m most struck by is that social worker/s were fired, a doctor is in permanent psychiatric care, social workers received death threats and in the middle of it all the mother receives a minimum 5 year jail sentence and has been in & out of jail since 2013.

There were clear failing but a lot of it was against the background of an overwhelmed system. In particular the clinic where the doctor worked had been flagged as dangerous to senior management by two doctors who resigned and another doctor was on stress leave. There was no access to notes at this clinic. The doctor who last saw Baby P had no access to notes, wasn’t familiar with procedures around child protection in the UK, was working without the assistance of a nurse who might have helped her. She saw Baby P for a specific reason to rule out underlying conditions that might explain his injuries. She was blamed for missing that he had a broken back but it’s not clear when his back was broken.
Her face was plastered all over the papers and she went to train stations multiple times with thoughts of ending her life, asked for her name to be removed from the register and is now in psychiatric care.

The social worker directly involved might have been able to do more but she did a lot including removing Peter, taking him to hospital, contacting the police and immediately contacting the mother when she heard she had a boyfriend.

The head of the area had serious death threats and was fired.

I know people say the different agencies between them had contact 60 times and they shouldn’t have missed it. But that also means there was a lot of effort being made to protect him.

There were reports written immediately afterwards blaming various social workers, the police and medical staff involved with the exception of that doctor seemed to get off more lightly.

The thing that floors me is the mother got min 5 years and was first released in 2013!!! It’s bloody extraordinary. I saw a clip of her speaking to social workers, she was v convincing!

I just can’t get over how a doctor can have a nervous breakdown but the mother is meanwhile out & about!!!! She back in now for breach of conditions I think. I keep thinking about that doctor.

AIBU?!

I get that people are from deprived backgrounds with trauma and abuse. But I feel there is a line you cross as a human that you can’t use that as an excuse - you watch two men severally physically abuse a child and you cover it up. You don’t need a high IQ or to have been raised at Sunday school to realise how wrong that is.
Background may excuse lesser neglect like not taking care of kids, but what happened here is another level.

Perfect storm of damaged people with trauma, own experiences of abuse and neglect, low IQ, poverty, over stretched services, some poor professional practice….

Like the royals then?

Something I've always wondered about the case, is the fact that 35 year old Jason Owen had moved into the house with his 15 year old girlfriend. The girl gave evidence during the trial. What were children's services doing this girl living with a boyfriend more than twice her age and her parents allowing this?

Middle class people tend to have better coping skills. There is something called 'executive functioning', which enables people to plan and organise, anticipate, follow through, prioritise, stay calm etc - this can be lacking in some people, so their lives are hugely chaotic. You are unlikely to be able to hold down a decent job and have a middle class lifestyle if you have rubbish executive functioning.

As someone who works around social care I totally agree! Social workers get bashed and the actual culprit gets next to nothing. Another thing people often don't post about in other cases are the judges. The media says social services could have done more etc but the judge who often make decisions that leave social workers and us scratching our heads don't get a mention. A social worker could be going to court to get a removal but of a judge says no then it's out of their hands.

The system needs a good shake up but I've worked with many good social workers who have had their hands tied as they ultimately don't make these decisions. I will say there are some poor social workers out there but luckily I've only ever come across 2.

It's also astonishing how few family members come forward when there is a child in need. Yet they stand there accusing others of failing the child but they didn't want to be involved. I do understand sometimes they can't but I've seen many family members just say they don't want to help or be involved. However it's also a big thing that parents try and can block other family members who do want to help. Unfortunately as parents still hold their rights, they have to be taken into account and manipulation is a real thing and proving it can be difficult. It's so sad.

It's the Greek yogurt with figs isn't it 🤣

What I've read is that the 15 year old child he was sexually abusing was missing from home and that the reason they were staying with TC was to evade Police and services due to his abuse of the child

Children who have experienced abuse growing up often do the same to their own children. Or have trouble knowing what normal family relationships look like. Murder is extreme but people who have grown up with severe beatings and emotionally absent or abusive parents will not have normal responses to triggers such as a crying baby for example.

I often wonder why these cases are much rarer in Ireland.

The UK has over 60m more people than Ireland and Ireland has its own child abuse issues with the Catholic church.

Put more money into social services and healthcare. Then perhaps interventions can be put in place earlier.
In this particular case if someone had flagged up the boyfriend moving in, they could have prevented what happened.
It still wouldn't be a brilliant home to grow up in but he'd probably be alive.

But she was hardly smearing the child in Nutella and lying to SS as a hobby. She knew it was wrong. Small children know that extreme violence is wrong.
Baby P had over 50 injuries it wasn’t a case of the odd smack, this was extreme bone breaking violence against a frigging toddler.

Some of these mothers have significant learning disabilities, undiagnosed autism. It isn't as straightforward as knowing what to do.

My girls used to be under a paediatrician (they are both adopted). She was interested in why some parents basically fall off a cliff when it comes to parenting. These are the ones with houses like tips, taking drugs in front of the kids, having sex in front of the kids, lending kids to paedophiles etc. She said poverty doesn't explain it - you can have a really disadvantaged estate, but most people will try their best and won't have their children removed even if it's not ideal.

She was convinced it was down to undiagnosed autism, adhd, learning disabilities, personality disorders. And nasty men identifying vulnerable women and moving in.

That’s very interesting. Food for thought.

many do not go on to abuse who were abused as children?

@the7Vabo You repeatedly say the sentence was too light but won’t acknowledge it met criteria at the time. I’m not intending to lecture but you use words like “swanning around in 5 years” and that clearly shows you didn’t understand the sentence or the role of the parole board or the recall system. So if you want a sensible discussion instead of just banging your drum, I think it’s a better strategy to engage.

Lots of people don’t agree the doctor was not at fault. Many individuals and systems were at fault. All the subsequent enquiries showed this. Undoubtedly for the mother, poor judgement by the Parole Board has complicated matters but you don’t recognise their input or that of other advisers. You stick to your stated view, don’t see any other explanation as plausible and then accuse me of being patronising. I do agree the press were crap but there had to be some consequences for this and, had the doctor taken a different view, and SS been more inquisitive they could have prevented a death. Obviously there are professional consequences but I agree trial by the press is unsavoury and helps no one to improve.

how about its just down to scummy people.

Are the nasty men also undiagnosed and with learning disabilities or personality disorders?

@Arran2024 I agree. That’s taken into account with sentencing. Hence you get “swanning around after 5 years” comments. It’s complex and not black and white. Sentencing guidelines matter as does background and personality disorders. Definitely SEN.

Of course not all who are abused repeat this but we aren’t able to monitor everyone.

50% of the prison and young offender population has learning difficulties and personality disorders. They do get punished! Men or women.

No they are just out and out scumbags.
Mostly these people are having babys to get benefits and houses, they rarely work.
Some women should be forcibly sterilised.

how, it cant be much of a punishment baby ps mother keeps going back in!!!

Do you think prison is a soft touch then? She has not actually reoffended. She has not met licence conditions. Of course people with learning difficulties don’t make the best decisions and might have impaired judgement. Hence they go back in if their sentence requires this. Hers does. Prison is there to reeducate them but some people find this very difficult. What would you prefer? Life? Death? No parole ever? 200,000 in prison?

Agree it's awful and very hard to understand or explain. Thankfully these cases are very rare

Self-preservation.

Either the child or them.

They either have never had a parent as a young child put them first and so don't know how to do so, or in a few cases have a personality disorder.