Baby P witch hunt

[the7Vabo]

I watched a full documentary on Tik Tok about Baby P today.

The thing I’m most struck by is that social worker/s were fired, a doctor is in permanent psychiatric care, social workers received death threats and in the middle of it all the mother receives a minimum 5 year jail sentence and has been in & out of jail since 2013.

There were clear failing but a lot of it was against the background of an overwhelmed system. In particular the clinic where the doctor worked had been flagged as dangerous to senior management by two doctors who resigned and another doctor was on stress leave. There was no access to notes at this clinic. The doctor who last saw Baby P had no access to notes, wasn’t familiar with procedures around child protection in the UK, was working without the assistance of a nurse who might have helped her. She saw Baby P for a specific reason to rule out underlying conditions that might explain his injuries. She was blamed for missing that he had a broken back but it’s not clear when his back was broken.
Her face was plastered all over the papers and she went to train stations multiple times with thoughts of ending her life, asked for her name to be removed from the register and is now in psychiatric care.

The social worker directly involved might have been able to do more but she did a lot including removing Peter, taking him to hospital, contacting the police and immediately contacting the mother when she heard she had a boyfriend.

The head of the area had serious death threats and was fired.

I know people say the different agencies between them had contact 60 times and they shouldn’t have missed it. But that also means there was a lot of effort being made to protect him.

There were reports written immediately afterwards blaming various social workers, the police and medical staff involved with the exception of that doctor seemed to get off more lightly.

The thing that floors me is the mother got min 5 years and was first released in 2013!!! It’s bloody extraordinary. I saw a clip of her speaking to social workers, she was v convincing!

I just can’t get over how a doctor can have a nervous breakdown but the mother is meanwhile out & about!!!! She back in now for breach of conditions I think. I keep thinking about that doctor.

AIBU?!

Isn’t the ‘mother’ back in prison? As of last month she broke licence and she’ll have trouble getting out now.

A propos of nothing, I don’t think I’ve ever seen pix of an uglier human being. So unusual to look as wrong outside as you are inside.

@the7Vabo couldn’t agree more re the doctor. That’s democracy for you.

I’m in awe of social workers - who knows how many lives they save daily. We should know, shouldn’t we. Doesn’t mean they’re all competent and/or supported tho.

@NowImNotDoingIt The serious case review revealed shortcomings of the services or we would not know about them. It was not just a focus on the individuals although the media did.

Obviously a mum is held to a greater standard than a father. She alone should have prevented this? Was she capable of that? As far as I’m aware, the sentence for his mother was not called in as being unduly lenient. This presumably means guidelines were followed. However lenient it might seem. Although there were recall clauses so she was released on licence it appears.

This is not entirely true and hasn't been for some time. There remain some difficulties but overall the IT systems are better and more joined up

What l don't understand is the light sentences in the majority of children death by parents, do the judges think that torturing a child to death justify just a few years in jail, in the case of Emma Tustin she is being protected in jail. Is that right definitely not in my eyes.
Life should mean life for anyone torturing/killing a child.

As I recall, one of the social workers involved tried to raise concerns with her manager, who was an evangelical Christian and only wanted to talk about God. The former was hung out to dry by her employers. I read the book about the case by the then Haringey Head of Children’s Services (Sharon Shoesmith) who was completely thrown to the wolves by the government keen to find a scapegoat.

I do wonder who are the kind of people who write death threats for people they don’t know. Probably the same kind of people who write begging letters to lottery winners.

@croydon15 They are not all light sentences by any means. The sentencing guidelines must take various factors into account. In this case the sentence was indefinite - minimum 5 years. So the mum had to keep asking the parole board. Her release, twice, was because she met the conditions set by the parole board. This is not a retrial of the first offence. She didn’t reoffend as far as I’m aware. She didn’t meet her licence conditions so was recalled to prison.

Now I believe there are 4 categories of culpability in a crime like this and then 3 ranges of sentences. It seems she was not sent to prison for murder but that’s surely a CPS decision. Keir Starmer was head of CPS. The only logical reason they didn’t go for murder was lack of evidence. Others might know more from the legal side.

Baby Ps parents deliberately murdered him. They lied repeatedly about their intentions. There is nobody that could have stopped them IMO. I feel very badly for people with that kind of responsibility pushed on them. No social worker ever wants to work on a case like that. GP's are trying to heal people. 5 years is an absolute joke, the justice system in this country is far to lenient when dealing with family crimes.

Have you looked at the sentencing guidelines? Plus P didn’t live with his father. The boyfriend was convicted - see attached.

Stepfather.

With respect I think you are getting caught up in the legal technicalities.

The sentence imposed on the mother is one of the biggest failures in this case. If she couldn’t be tried for murder and I understand why technically, I’m sure there are more than enough crimes on the statute book to ensure she spent a long time in jail, so yes CPS failed.

Lucy Letby is 100% guilty and even if she wasn't I'm not sure who you believe the "villain/s" to be? Not everything is a conspiracy but for some reason people are in huge denial about her. As for Kate and Gerry McCann, the people responsible are almost always the parents so obviously suspicion fell on them. I still don't know what I believe with that case but they are very strange people.

Just watched this it's interesting to watch. The mother and the boyfriend and brother should have got a biggest sentence.

@the7Vabo If you argue the sentence was lenient, you have to look at the guidelines at the time. The sentence was not called in by the sec of state. It was indefinite, and it was not 5 years. The technicalities matter because they govern what a judge can hand down in terms of sentence. It cannot be what the public bays for. Or we would erect scaffolds.

We always call for longer sentences and they have become longer over time. This crime might well be sentenced differently now. However if you are not happy with the sentence, there’s little you can do. Find the money to build many more prisons and never trust the parole board I guess. Do look at the Parole programme on tv tonight. It’s part of a series about parole for prisoners.

@the7Vabo Also don’t complain of a witch hunt and then conduct one yourself against the judiciary and parole board. Every professional involved in this case has a role to play and some did them better than others. It’s undoubtedly true that the sentence was within the guidelines. Dominic Raab wanted to reform the parole board as Justice Secretary but he was moved on. He wanted ultimate control. A here today, gone tomorrow politician and no legal qualifications at all. Do we trust that scenario more? Hopefully not.

I think it should be possible to discuss this without being patronising.

Im very familiar with legal processes, I understand how sentencing guidelines work, I expect most people do.

Your tone is that there is something about this that I simply don’t understand that you need to lecture me on.

I did the first year of a SW degree, then switched courses. It was abundantly clear to me through shadowing days that they are given a literally impossible workload, and are set up to fail. There’s no way they can possibly do everything they are meant to be doing, in the time they have. They are firefighting what seems most urgent at the time, and others fall through the cracks.

The alarming thing for me about that was that SWs have a statutory responsibility, that is that they are PERSONALLY accountable if a person ends up being harmed in some way when it’s one of their cases and they could, in theory, have prevented it. And that could result in a prison sentence, or as you say, a witch hunt. No ta, not for me.

I adopted two children who were severely neglected. Neither of their birth parents were charged with anything - this is really common. It is as if losing their children is punishment enough. So many adopters I know have similar - baby P's mother and her boyfriend only got convicted because he died. If the problems had been spotted before that, chances are he would have been removed but they wouldn't have been prosecuted.

I agree the sentence is too lenient.

Entirely separately, I believe many so called professionals also bear a huge responsibility.

It is a huge responsibility to be a dr.

The doctor who last saw Baby P had no access to notes, wasn’t familiar with procedures around child protection in the UK

If that's true, she had no business taking the job. Anymore than i would claiming I could perform brain surgery.

Many safeguarding training sessions look at the abject failures in this case. They examine how each person could have made the outcome different.

Haven’t read all the posts but I work in social work and I think people would be shocked just how many children are at risk but social workers hands are tied to do much as the evidence just isn’t there. There are a lot of devious parents who know how to play the system. It’s awful.

I think I feel so sorry for that doctor because it has completely destroyed her life whereas the “mother” was out of prison swanning around the place before she was sent back because she can’t behave herself.

I see why you are saying that she shouldn’t have taken the job. But people hired her knowing her background and didn’t train her so it’s not just her fault.

If I was an example of a failed professional on a training course I think my mental health wouldn’t stand up well to it.

That must be hugely challenging for you, and I imagine something that’s underestimated by the general public .

Absolutely!! And nothing is black and white. Periods of chaos and then stability and just not meeting thresholds to remove etc

Mum and her boyfriend and his brother killed him, not the father.
I remember there was some talk of Peters mum asking to see the children who were taken into care.
Wonder if she does? Wouldn't surprise me.
To think she was also.pregnant by him when they were caught.
Poor child having that as a mother and him for a father.
Imagine the shock when your told.
I still don't understand why they need to bring all this misery about and have kids they can't look after, aren't these creatures embarassed?
Why do they want to be hated?

What about the other children being abused in the household?