Doubts grow over Labour’s VAT plan for private schools

[Blanketyre]

Article in the Observer here:
https://www.theguardian.com/education/2024/oct/05/doubts-grow-over-labours-vat-plan-for-private-schools

I must say they've gone very quiet on it.

Grammar school places are not dropping in London and surrounding areas. 1800 applicants for 180 places and 1600 applicants for 150 places in 2 schools around here.

It really isn’t. Very few care. And OP is trying to whip up a suggestion that it won’t happen which isn’t there .

Newspaper article is about dates re it happening- January or September.

I defy anybody to find that interesting.

It depends upon how you see education. In France it is argued that every child has the right to access education and that there should be a level playing field for that education. As such parents have a choice whether or not to send their child to state or private school and the state gives a set amount of money to the school of choice.

Then scroll past and don't engage

Although I voted Labour (the current Tory’s are too insane), I think it may be time to swap out Starmer and Reeves. If this is done early, there’s enough parliament time left to bed a new PM and Chancellor in.

They both lack ideas, seem confused, no vision etc. They had 14 years to think up workable plans. Coming in and throwing their hands up saying there’s no money so they can’t do anything is very poor. They want to continue austerity on the sly. They indulge in stupid culture wars like VAT to rob Peter to pay Paul (and Paul won’t see a penny anyway). They have bad advisors and are arrogant. It looks like they are just excited to have the job titles and don’t know what to do.

Get a top two who will come up with a bold plan. We’re in the gutter so there’s opportunities to deliver quick wins. They don’t always need funding, simple policy changes can make big and quick differences. If they gave each department a target to deliver one quick legislative win by Christmas, we’d start 2025 differently.

Unfortunately we’re stuck with two people who can’t believe their luck, and who are afraid of the Daily Mail, Murdoch, some loud Redwall types and bots on X who wish our country economic harm. They are weak.

If Labour were a football team, there would be fans screaming for Starmer to be sacked now.

https://capx.co/labour-asked-for-a-better-way-to-pay-for-education-here-it-is/

😂😂 Thanks for the laugh, that article is one of the funniest things I've read for a while.

You know you actually can make voluntary, additional tax contributions? You can just bank transfer direct to HMRC.

@Didimum are you going to pay more tax now you know it’s possible?

The Guardian said today that it's still going ahead as soon as possible, just that the original 1st January start date won't be met.

But those parents are also paying for those same services!
the fact is that you are taking a state school place (probably a decent state given you are so wealthy and so can afford a decent catchment), from some one who can’t private (whilst you can).

it’s not something to be proud of. At all.

No one in the UK pays directly for state education so your comment about private school parents not paying directly for it is an irrelevant point.

The point is private school parents could access state education which would cost ALL tax payers £8k annually for each child - and by not paying it they are saving the tax payers this money.

A child enters the education system for a number of years - anyone with a heart knows its not the best situation for a child to move schools if they are happy and flourishing there.

If Labour had of said all new private school joiners from now on will be charged VAT then that is a different story - parents could make an informed choice before starting in the system.

You have to remember that we are talking about a group of kids who experienced the disruption to their education and social development because of covid - its not just the SEN kids moved into private that are going to be badly affected by this - its also the kids moved into private because their schools did not keep up with their learning during covid. Kids that otherwise would have stayed in the state school system but their parents have stretched to private to plug covid gaps...and in doing so reduced the burden on the state school system.

Introduce VAT if you want but for fuck sake give this generation of kids affected by covid a break - they have had enough disruption to their education.

I do. My ds is in y11. If it's delayed it will save me two terms worth. Also, what a pointless contribution.. we're 9 pages in now so clearly it is interesting. If you're not, no one is compelling you to participate.

"The Treasury on Saturday night refused to confirm that the plan to impose 20% VAT on private school fees would go ahead from 1 January, as confirmed by the chancellor, Rachel Reeves, in July, instead saying it would be introduced “as soon as possible”.

I would imagine that is giving private school parents some hope that it won't be introduced until at least September 2025.

In Bexley, south-east London, with four selective secondaries, 600 fewer children were signed up this year.
Numbers due to take the exam for entry to the five grammars in the south London borough of Sutton also dipped. In Essex, interest in the 11-plus did rise this year, but the numbers who registered were still lower than in 2022.

The vast majority of the country don’t live in London. And frankly given the North/ South divide and unfair education funding that happens across the country outside of London I doubt very much if anybody cares about a few wealthy parents squabbling over London grammar places and extortionately priced houses in catchments .

Squabble away!

is this the standard of thinking/ critical analysis we can expect if all our kids are educated in now oversubscribed state schools ?

for what it’s worth I think private schools should ultimately pay VAT, but you don’t, no matter what political party you are, mess with children’s education. So you introduce it with proper notice, clarity on SEN impact, time for impacted local authorities to prepare and on a graduated basis.

it terrifies me that we as a nation seem to have fallen either for the politics of envy or for the Brexit style - do this and you’ll have thousands of new teachers. Remember how that worked for the NHS?

Totally agree with all of your points, particularly the last one.

Interested to hear from private school SEN children's parents who don't currently have an ehcp - why don't they? In state education, an ehcp is practically the only way you can force a school's/ local authority's hand to meet a child's needs. And there are thousands and thousands of us who cannot afford private education and so we endure the battles to get an ehcp in place. The system needs change and investment for all.

You can use it without caring if they have it or not or believing they ‘need’ it. These arguments are all so desperate.

Presumably because they know that the private school will meet their child's needs without an EHCP?

I don't think the arguments ARE all desperate actually. There is a lot of philosophical and political thinking behind this decision from Labour that is worth analysing.

Hide the thread or scroll past, why read

But if you are so vehemently opposed to indy schools as a moral standpoint then to use them is hypocritical. Obviously not an accusation that has been levelled at Labour on anything else. These people are true champagne socialists, pontificating against something yet happy to benefit from it.

Any child managing in a mainstream private school does not need an EHCP.

Shame Labour didn't do much philosophical or critical thinking before announcing it!

The article in my OP is, as of 9am on Sunday, the most viewed on the Guardian website, so that seems to suggest that actually a lot of people DO care, one way or another.

Why not as long as I get to pick a school, where my dd could access the education and get additional help, mental health support, access to the SENCO even though she’s not diagnosed with what is likely autism and PDA. She needs all of this and I would be paying for the privilege.

What I wouldn’t be ok with is sending my dd to the catchment state school she went to in year 7 and 8, where she couldn’t access the education and paying for it. Why would I? That’s some kind of communist dictat. Lockdown literally saved her education as she was at home, relaxed and learning.

Taking my dd out of the state system to ensure dd actually has an education has saved the government money. Yet that is still not enough.