Doubts grow over Labour’s VAT plan for private schools

[Blanketyre]

Article in the Observer here:
https://www.theguardian.com/education/2024/oct/05/doubts-grow-over-labours-vat-plan-for-private-schools

I must say they've gone very quiet on it.

In fact, research (this is from the us) has shown that the biggest factor to influence a child’s life outcome - is the presence of two parents and stable family life.

>>>, marriage and a stable two-parent family appear to matter more than ever for children on a range of outcomes.

Recent research suggests that an intact family is increasingly tied to the financial, social, and emotional welfare of children—and family instability is more strongly linked to worse outcomes for kids than it used to be. The upshot for children is that marriage not only still matters, but it seems to matter more than ever. Children who have the benefit of two parents are comparatively more advantaged today than they were in previous decades.

Consider children’s educational attainment. In Education Next, a research team led by Kathleen Ziol-Guest at New York University explored the link between family structure and “educational attainment”—or how many years of schooling children complete across America. From the late 1960s, when family breakdown was more unusual, to the 1990s, when it was common, that link did not weaken; instead, it grew stronger. The researchers concluded: “the estimated relationship between the single-parent family structure variable and educational attainment more than tripled in size.”6 The tightening link between family structure and education does not just apply to educational attainment, it also extends to student behavior.

A recent analysis by Nicholas Zill and Brad Wilcox found that “rates of school contact for student misbehavior are nearly twice as high among students living with separated or divorced parents as among those living with stably married parents.” Zill and Wilcox also found that school suspensions or expulsions are almost three times as high for children living in non-intact families, compared to children in intact, married families.

Moreover, their results indicate “the relative risk faced by students from non-traditional families has actually increased” from 1996 to 2019 when it comes to school suspensions and expulsions, as well as school reports of student misbehavior. To be sure, on some outcomes, like repeating a grade, Zill and Wilcox found that the link was essentially stable over time. But they found no evidence that the link between family structure and student outcomes is diminishing.<<<

Yes, so everyone keeps saying. I'd close all of them if it were up to me.

Private schooling is a luxury, therefore it should be taxed accordingly. What really pisses me off is the faux " oh, think of all the children in state schools struggling in a bigger class" and " what about the scholarships." As if you give a shit about anyone else's kids other than your own.

A decent education is not a luxury. It should be something everyone strives for. In any case, VAT is not a tax on luxury. Caviar and cake are not subject to VAT for example.

I'm afraid you're simply wrong. You're saying that at the underperforming schools, they are underperforming purely because most of the parents of the children who attend are disengaged?

How do you explain a school like Michaela then? I am not a fan of Birbalsingh but you can't argue that she turned that school around. Did she vet the parents and turf out the disengaged ones to turn the school around?

Actually, there may be a grain of truth. I suspect some parents simply do not understand how best to support their child through school. This k one of the things that Michaela does, they give their parents lots of advice on supporting their child, esp around exam time.

A private education is a luxury. That's why most of us can't afford it.

VAT isn't a tax on luxury goods or services, but other than that...

Lol well it will never be up to you. Though I love your gusto!

I personally don’t think a state takeover of the education sector is a good thing or an improvement, but to each their own.

Also, private schools ceasing to exist wouldn’t make a meaningful difference. My parents grew up in socialist/Communist countries and there was most definitely a hierarchy of schools. Getting your children into the best ones depended on whether you could pull the strings yourself, ask a friend in the right position to do it, or could afford the bribe.

Most people can’t afford caviar, first class flights, private healthcare or luxury care homes. None of those things are subject to VAT.

Charging vat on private education isn't communist.

If this government thinks private education isn’t fair then why doesn’t it stop families giving their children extra tuition, large houses, a stay at home parent, holidays etc etc. These are all things my dual income friends with money give their kids because they were able to buy expensive houses in catchment for decent state schools.

Absolutely there should be a level playing field for children but do it by bringing up state schools.

No it isn't.

The biggest segregating factor is house prices near good schools.

The only fair way to do it would be to have no catchment area and for anyone to be able apply for a school and for there to be a lottery for places.

I'm sure that if your kids were allocated a place at a bad school you would pay for private education.

And you didn't answer my question. Did you buy a house near a good school?

Socialism and communism are not the same, as I'm sure you know.

Having no private schools does not equate to state interference. You're just being hyperbolic.
That said, you can breathe easily as there's no way this country will ever get rid of them. Too many rich and powerful people benefit.

Just as well I didn’t say it was.

Yep,it’s just an envious policy by a govt pandering to envious parents.
well run private schools will excel and will not hide for fear of upsetting an envious govt and parents. Will be interesting to see how it all shakes down

No, they are not. One parent grew up in a Communist country, the other a Socialist one. Hence the ‘Communist/Socialist’ after ‘parents’.

The government abolishing the private education sector is by definition state interference. No hyperbole required.

"I'm afraid you're simply wrong"

In that case, I won't bother engaging because really what's the point?!

So much entitlement.

If you want to send your children to private school, knock yourself out. Just pay the bloody VAT. Just stop concocting ridiculous reasons why its going to have a negative effect on my children, and that you give a shit.

I presume that you don't approve of councils who cough up the money for SEN children to go to private school.

No. I think that there should be proper provision in the state sector.

Exactly this

Ok I’ve been scrolling by with just my own quiet eyerolls but this comment cannot be allowed to stand.

I live in a country (Australia) where private schools are given money by the government. And this has happened for many reasons. But it absolutely 100% has NEVER been because private schools benefit society.

Governments subsidising private school fees is popular because so many people are greedy and selfish. The idea that your child can have a better education in a lovely school with a fancy uniform and the government will contribute towards that? Well it really appeals to them. And as these many, many threads on MN show, if you try to take it away from them they become absolutely incandescent. They take to Twix (where all balanced and rational discussion belongs 😂) to vent their spleen, they bombard their MPs with furious emails. And, because there are a lot more of them in Australia (40% of secondary students attend non government schools) than the UK, they generally succeed.

Private schools help the children who attend them. Nobody else. And as soon as they become financially accessible to larger numbers of parents, they actually materially disadvantage state schools and their pupils.

I think the UK should fight hard to keep the proportion of students at private schools at the current level or preferably lower. If the introduction of VAT meant significantly more students attending state schools (which I don’t think will actually happen btw) then that would be a good thing.

But there isn’t. I think there should be swimming pools in state schools but there isn’t. Parents will pay what they need to and keep it moving, that’s if it actually happens lol.

The reports are that 10,000 pupils have already left independent schools for state. If the average cost to the state is £7000 (?) per year, per pupil, that means this policy has already cost the treasury £70m, before it's even raised a penny. 👏 👏