Doubts grow over Labour’s VAT plan for private schools

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Article in the Observer here:
https://www.theguardian.com/education/2024/oct/05/doubts-grow-over-labours-vat-plan-for-private-schools

I must say they've gone very quiet on it.

Well it happens in Australia and some US states.

Do you only compare opportunities within the same post code? Why aren’t you focused on disparities across post codes? Please explain.

The Independent Schools Council has just reported that numbers starting private secondary education this year are down by up to 4.6% in some schools, and that total numbers in all years are down by 1.7%. As VAT on fees became an (almost) certainty at the beginning of July, early indications are there will not be massive numbers moving from private to state education.

It very much depends on the schools in question. Some state schools are better than some private schools. Many parents don’t choose private to get an advantage. They choose private to level the playing field. Perhaps their child wouldn’t be able to function in large classes. Perhaps the state schools don’t offer access to the subjects they have an interest in. Perhaps they live in an area where the state schools are below average but don’t want to move house.

I say this as someone who was state educated. Do I think that all children educated privately have an advantage over me? No I don’t.

I am following it fine thanks.
Saying there's "more disparity within state schools" does not mean that there's also not disparity btw state and private. Sounds like a strawman argument which was used to counter the argument that private schools cause disparity.
Of course they cause disparity, private sch parents wouldn't be paying otherwise. They are paying to send their child to a better school bc they feel it will have a better outcome and benefit them in life. Claiming otherwise is disingenuous.

Just because the quality of a child’s life may be enhanced in the short term by private school, it doesn’t automatically follow that it gives an advantage later in life that is the root of societal segregation.

My brother went to private school and my parents would whole heartedly say it was worth the investment from a pastoral perspective and in terms of the friendships he made but he has been in the same NMW job in the same factory since he left at 16.

Don’t agree with this interpretation- most analysts interpret this as higher than expected drops given the earlier than anticipated implementation schedule. The real impact of the policy will take years to realise - most parents will try to minimise disruption, so will hang on for a year or two where possible to smooth the transition.

I'm just worried about SEN children. There's a fantastic private school near us which specialises in one to one teaching. Parents fight local authorities for years to get their children in. They still pay for all the extras. Those children blossom there. Parents knowing that they would sink at state school in the areas they live in.

Most of these children go onto college thankfully.

There’s disparity across all areas of life. Pretending that private schools are the root cause of much of the disparity is ludicrous when a small percentage attend private school.

Parents reading to their child has been shown to hugely affect outcomes in children. Should we ban it, or tax it? What about children who have a healthy diet. That affects their life hugely. Should we tax parents who choose to feed their child well? The more sensible option would be to improve things from the bottom up, rather than seek “equality” by knocking down the things that benefit children.

1. plenty of other children would benefit from smaller classes... sadly they won't have access to these smaller classes ever.
2. parents not wanting to send their children to a "below average state school" is obvs because they feel their child won't get decent education there, so they pay to send them to private to get an excellent education... because this will be valuable to their child in life... I'm sure all of the other parents in the area of the "below average state school" would also like to opt for an excellent private school education... but sadly can't for obvious reasons... and as such their child has less of an advantage.

To claim otherwise is disingenuous.

That’s just not true. Parents can send children for the immediate benefits with little thought or attachment to how that translates into future life opportunities.

Not so around my way. The local secondaries are rammed, especially the 3 ofsted outstanding.

Actually if you look into the challenges made in some eu countries, they tried to tax private education and when shown the figures etc, they backed down.
in any case I hope if it goes through it shows just how incompetent this Govt are and if it doesn’t it shows how incompetent they are. A win win for observers and of course the children suffer which is a real shame.

All children should have access to an equal level of education. That’s the point. Some state schools benefit from small classes and great outcomes for children. Why aren’t people campaigning for equality across the state sector? Why shouldn’t every child be able to access that? If everyone could access a great state school, the number of parents choosing private would plummet,

So after backtracking on non-doms and taxing private equity partners, they’re now reconsidering the private school tax plans?

Quelle surprise.

Ah ok. Well I wasn't claiming private schools are a root cause of unfairness in society. perhaps it is a symptom of it.

I was simply saying that of course private school kids are at an advantage compared to state school kids... if they weren't, then people wouldn't be paying.

Also, can I say, justifying an unfair system by saying "life is unfair" is a bit of a poor argument.

private schools don’t cause disparity, but they do reflect it. When you have good state options, which it sounds like you do, then I understand why it seems superfluous. Those of us with poor state options and/or send children who cannot cope in state mainstream are not paying for a luxury so much as the basic entitlement that we should be receiving but aren’t. My children are just as entitled to a decent education as yours, but with send and poor local provision the only way we achieve that is through private education.

Well I'll be disingenuous then.

"All other parents in the area of the "below average state school" would also like to opt for an excellent private school education".

No - the reason a lot of these schools are underperforming isn't because of a lack of resources or excellent teachers, it's because a lot of the parents who end up with children there don't care less about their kid's education and are completely disengaged. The parents who are engaged and supportive then avoid the school at all costs.

Getting rid of private schools would do nothing to address inequality in society. Inequality runs far deeper than that.

People are campaigning for better state provision. Teaching unions are for starters. Sadly though, people don't want taxes to increase to pay for it.

Agreed, parents around me decided to send their kids to private because the state school got 61% average versus a national average of 73%. I wish private school parents well and would rather places at outstanding schools goes to kids near the school and not end up being pushed out which will be the case

Quality Private schools are not going anywhere. In fact they will end up doing better than before. It’s how it works. Resources they would have shared will simply be withdrawn and kept for their kids separating even more

Ofsted have said that our local school has not led to good outcomes for children and that children didn’t achieve well. The choice was to send them to a failing school or to pay privately to access a decent education which is available through the state system in some areas of the country.

Dd moved to private school to level the playing field as you say in year 9. She left an ofsted outstanding school as she wasn’t coping there at all. She has a medical condition, which is affecting her drastically mentally. As is, she has still developed severe mental health problems.

I think it would. OK some wealthy folk will send their kids abroad. and good luck to them. but most won't.

Of course society won't be equal and fair, but improvements can, and have been made. As evidenced by history.

Society is more fair now than it was 100 years ago.