Doubts grow over Labour’s VAT plan for private schools

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Article in the Observer here:
https://www.theguardian.com/education/2024/oct/05/doubts-grow-over-labours-vat-plan-for-private-schools

I must say they've gone very quiet on it.

They can, just they'll have to pay VAT.

They shouldn't have to.

It’s 93% in state education. And as has been pointed out several times on this thread, there are plenty of state schools, which offer a superior education to a substantial number of private schools. Ie state grammars. My friend’s dd is awaiting results to get into a super selective all girls school in the midlands an hour’s drive away from their home.

So if it is possible to offer a superior level of education in some state schools, why oh why is it not possible to strive to bring standards up in state schools?

They’re not net earners, ergo they are net recipients (to get the terminology correct). Ie they take more from the state than they put in. The poster got the terminology incorrect. But it was not meant in a derogatory way imo.

Because there are very few kids with severe SEN, parental illiteracy or poverty in grammar schools and they have the easiest cohort to teach.

Interestingly many grammars have very low funding due to the lack of SEN.

I understand there is a lot of SEN, poverty, illiteracy, child carers, English as a second language and so forth. My observation is we should not be pushing down. We should be properly funding state schools as education is the way out of poverty, quashing illiteracy and ultimately work ethic and productivity in this country. And I would be prepared to pay more tax for this. Children are our future and they are the ones, who will be funding the NHS and the old aged pensions etc.

You’re totally missing the point that vast swathes of the country can’t access these state grammars. They don’t exist in many areas. It’s exactly the same with SEN provision - some state provision is great, whereas other areas of the country fail SEN children dismally. Why can some areas offer great provision whilst others fail? State provision should be equally great across the entire country.

The money raised from VAT on school fees is NOT going to be 'put into improving state schools.' It is specifically going to be used to train more maths teachers.

This is why I think the VAT policy is poorly thought out.

Rather than training more maths teachers, the govt needs to address the ACTUAL REASONS why they are all leaving in droves!

But no, what do they do? Burden teachers even more with yet another initiative stating that all schools must now provide breakfast clubs!

No mention of where staffing will come from though. No actual detail.

So the new maths teachers they will train up will just go the same way as the current teachers in general - that is, OUT THE DOOR WITH STRESS.

Breakfast clubs will be great for many children, please don't get me wrong. But in more affluent areas, we all know that they will just be used by parents who want to get to work earlier. Nothing to do with breakfast!

Teachers in the U.K. are expected to be social workers / mental health staff and now feed people's kids to boot. That's before they even get started on the curriculum or actual teaching.

So, yes, I think this is sticking plaster politics and will achieve nothing.

The problems in schools reflect poor parenting, lack of respect for teachers, poverty, entitlement, and a general culture of 'passing the buck'.

I completely agree.

Why should people have such different opportunities provided by the taxes we are all paying! As someone mentioned I doubt many politicians have children going to schools full of violence and constant disruption to their education.

Exactly this. Even if VAT was going to raise money for state schools (it isn’t), the problems with many schools in the state sector run far deeper than a simple question of funding.

No grammar schools near me in Wales. Our local secondary the sen provision was abysmal. Children segregated for teaching. So you got widely varied abilities. My friends son dyslexic spent five miserable years there

Who says grammar provision is great?

Do you have a horse in this race? Might wishful thinking be involved?

What do you mean?

Are you paying private school fees?

No

It can be very good for academic children. Many parents obviously think so, as families move heaven and earth to try to get their children into grammars.

I don’t agree with the existence of grammars either, so I can’t help you there.

Oops, the taxman is pissing in your cornflakes this morning, clearly.

It can be very bad too- for those in grammar schools and those separated out. Weeding out all the lower ability, Sen and poor children does not make them great. They attract lazy teachers.

Which comprehensives ARE the role models & doing it right?

"Lazy teachers". Any teachers on here like to respond? You realise that 44000 teachers left the sector last year, partly due to attitudes like that?
If you were a teacher would you prefer classes of motivated kids who allowed you to actually teach or would you prefer to spend most of the lesson doing crowd control and behaviour management?

What are your suggestions then, other than VAT on private schools?

The disparity between state schools is massive. One school near me will have 6% reach great depth for reading, the school up the road will have 56% reach greater depth. Teachers at both schools are amazing.