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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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14
KatieL5 · 06/10/2024 16:12

Applebutt3r · 06/10/2024 15:53

Nope I’d like the 75% of A and A* at Alevel achieved by state pupils being reflected in top uni and job and admissions instead of it being the wealthy 25% who are massively over represented .

Pretty sure I’m not alone in this and it will be looked at by the current government.

Like many with no experience of the private school sector you are fixated on grades.

There is a lot more to education than that and in my experience the deciding factor in long term career success is far more broad than that.

KatieL5 · 06/10/2024 16:19

Another76543 · 06/10/2024 16:00

So much easier when you’re paying a school to do it for you

So you think private schools arrange all of their pupils’ internships? Of course they don’t. The assumptions about private schools is ridiculous.

It’s total nonsense. People are simply looking for excuses.

I went to PS. Neither I nor anyone else I went to school with had any assistance from anyone we knew for career development. Nobody’s parents gave us a job, no old school network gave us a leg up.

Thos notion that everyone use contacts to unfairly progress their careers is simply inaccurate in most cases.

I know far more people from state education backgrounds who went and worked for family businesses rather than stand on their own 2 feet.

Bellaboo568 · 06/10/2024 16:19

Another76543 · 06/10/2024 15:52

internships mummy/ daddy and the old boys networks have bought .

These myths which keep being peddled are getting beyond ridiculous. I am state educated, had no parental connections, and easily managed to get work experience/placements/internships in traditionally hard to access careers, as did my partner. It just takes a bit of initiative, perseverance and patience. People need to stop stamping their feet and wailing “it’s not fair” and actually do something about it.

Yes and frankly I'd have found extra UCAS points a bloody insult and a stigma I didn't need or want.

Niceeyessweetheart · 06/10/2024 16:21

cardibach · 05/10/2024 21:50

Don’t be daft @MichaelandKirk
Theres no way it makes it worse. And yes, I’ve heard all the arguments about overcrowding and pricing kids out of schools.

I disagree. It makes education even more elitist. Those who can afford the top public schools will always afford to do so. It is the smaller independents who will shut where many have chosen to meet specific need and they can just about scrape the fees.

The education system, in it's current form, is not equal. It is a postcode lottery mixed in with some grammar areas. There is no level playing field and many of those who have their DC at really good state schools have also paid to be there. It's just not as transparent.

Applebutt3r · 06/10/2024 16:21

KatieL5 · 06/10/2024 16:12

Like many with no experience of the private school sector you are fixated on grades.

There is a lot more to education than that and in my experience the deciding factor in long term career success is far more broad than that.

Well yes resilience in the real world of state education should count for a lot.

Barbadossunset · 06/10/2024 16:23

It’s not okay for anyone too. I assure you there’s more space for private schools to absorb cuts without affecting staff. I’ve worked in both sectors.

cardibach why did you work in a private school since you despise them so much?

Applebutt3r · 06/10/2024 16:23

Bellaboo568 · 06/10/2024 16:19

Yes and frankly I'd have found extra UCAS points a bloody insult and a stigma I didn't need or want.

That’s you. Others getting the uni places they deserve instead of missing out to an over representation of the privately educated might not agree.

Happy to listen to alternative suggestions from privately educating parents concerned about the over representation of their kids in the top jobs and unis. Funnily enough they don’t seem to be that forthcoming.

Bellaboo568 · 06/10/2024 16:29

Applebutt3r · 06/10/2024 16:23

That’s you. Others getting the uni places they deserve instead of missing out to an over representation of the privately educated might not agree.

Happy to listen to alternative suggestions from privately educating parents concerned about the over representation of their kids in the top jobs and unis. Funnily enough they don’t seem to be that forthcoming.

That's me yes but I am one of these state educated people you're talking about.

This over representation concept is a thing of the past - my career was traditionally like that but it's very much not the case now with the younger generation coming through and people "like me" are in these top jobs now.

Another76543 · 06/10/2024 16:31

Bellaboo568 · 06/10/2024 16:29

That's me yes but I am one of these state educated people you're talking about.

This over representation concept is a thing of the past - my career was traditionally like that but it's very much not the case now with the younger generation coming through and people "like me" are in these top jobs now.

That’s me as well. State educated. Many top employers now have outreach programmes where they visit deprived state schools to try to help students and encourage them.

InterIgnis · 06/10/2024 16:34

Theonewhogotaway · 06/10/2024 15:40

I was astounded pre election that anyone thought the vat on private school fees would happen, so many threads about it, when it was clear it was never happening due to the fact it was on legally dodgy ground and starmer is a lawyer and knew that. He simply wasn’t being honest.

and I’m still astounded any one actually thinks it will happen;

by the time the law cases are resolved Labour will,be long out of power.

Indeed. Of course it’s best not to count on anything unless it’s signed, sealed and delivered, but I suspected and suspect the same. It’s easy to promise something to appeal to your base, but another thing entirely to actually bring it info being. Same applies regarding the promise of closing the private equity loophole.

I wouldn’t expect a definitive statement now, I would expect what’s happening - the laying of the ‘well, actually, now we’ve come to really take a good look at it…’ groundwork before it’s swept away as quietly as possible.

Bellaboo568 · 06/10/2024 16:35

Another76543 · 06/10/2024 16:31

That’s me as well. State educated. Many top employers now have outreach programmes where they visit deprived state schools to try to help students and encourage them.

Yes - we have such a focus on socioeconomic diversity. I agree it was a problem previously (I'm in my 40s so I'm talking about the generations before me) and it can't change overnight because that generation are still active in the workplace, but it's clear to see the change in the generations below me.

mugboat · 06/10/2024 16:39

MaybeImbad · 06/10/2024 16:03

I can’t believe there keep being threads and articles on this! It affects such a tiny minority of wealthy people!

I guess they’re the vocal minority…

vocal minority forming a significant minority, if not majority, of mumsnetters

CreateUserNames · 06/10/2024 16:40

Applebutt3r · 06/10/2024 09:36

My child has a recent EHCP with absolutely zero need for a lawyer or appeal. Mainstream education in a private school would absolutely not meet her needs. Everything you have listed is common in state schools - time out spaces, work on teams, flexible send teams and non is EHCP worthy.

Sick to death of SEN being used as a pawn in all this and the threats from rich parents saying they’ll simply employ lawyers to get an EHCP and take from state educated kids.

Its vile.

Then you should be grateful that you are lucky to have it all for free, well not free, to have it all paid by others.

Afterrain · 06/10/2024 16:46

Surely, if there are redundancies in the private sector they can apply to be one of the 6,500 teachers the Government hope to recruit.
Also, if they have so much training in SEN they could be very useful in SEN units and support!

whoknowswhattodonow · 06/10/2024 16:47

cardibach · 05/10/2024 21:50

Don’t be daft @MichaelandKirk
Theres no way it makes it worse. And yes, I’ve heard all the arguments about overcrowding and pricing kids out of schools.

If you think the arguments are daft, come do my job. I teach at a feeder school and currently have 33 children squashed into my tiny classroom with one adult help, sometimes. I won't list all the SEND I have in my class but tell me how this is better? It doesn't feel better when I try to make sure active has understood the learning. It doesn't feel better when I'm using my precious time to mark their work. It doesn't feel better when I'm sitting for hours on parents nights. It doesn't feel better when I'm looking for enough resources.
Please, please do tell me how this is better!

CreateUserNames · 06/10/2024 16:47

Whatafustercluck · 06/10/2024 09:57

I am genuinely interested to hear from parents who don't have an ehcp, and have a SEN child in private education. If I'm understanding you correctly, it's because the standard of private SEN provision is so good that their needs are met without an ehcp?

Do you therefore object to your VAT being used to address the wider inequalities in state SEN provision, which you've freely acknowledged? You've said you want your child to have the best chance in life and you want everyone's children to have the best chance in life - and you would be happy to pay more taxes for this to happen.

Why should anyone being tasted twice? State parents should pay their own fair share when the country can no longer afford so!

Applebutt3r · 06/10/2024 16:47

Bellaboo568 · 06/10/2024 16:29

That's me yes but I am one of these state educated people you're talking about.

This over representation concept is a thing of the past - my career was traditionally like that but it's very much not the case now with the younger generation coming through and people "like me" are in these top jobs now.

Well the link I posted is only 5 years old and I doubt very much the figures have changed that much. The inequalities within the BBC alone has been reported very recently.

amp.theguardian.com/society/2019/jun/25/britains-top-jobs-still-in-hands-of-private-school-elite-study-finds

https://www.suttontrust.com/news-opinion/all-news-opinion/elitist-britain-five-times-more-likely-to-go-to-private-school/

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13561321/amp/Privately-educated-BBC-staff-highest-paid-jobs.html

Britain's most powerful people 5 times more likely to go to private school - Sutton Trust

Elitist Britain 2019 maps the educational backgrounds of leading figures across nine broad areas.

https://www.suttontrust.com/news-opinion/all-news-opinion/elitist-britain-five-times-more-likely-to-go-to-private-school

Applebutt3r · 06/10/2024 16:48

CreateUserNames · 06/10/2024 16:40

Then you should be grateful that you are lucky to have it all for free, well not free, to have it all paid by others.

I don’t think anybody whose child easily qualifies for an EHCP is lucky .

CreateUserNames · 06/10/2024 16:53

Applebutt3r · 06/10/2024 16:48

I don’t think anybody whose child easily qualifies for an EHCP is lucky .

Comparing to many others have challenges & don’t have access for good enough state schools, yes you are very lucky indeed. If you can’t see it, maybe that’s why you are so bitter towards private school parents.

Newrumpus · 06/10/2024 16:59

Bellaboo568 · 06/10/2024 16:19

Yes and frankly I'd have found extra UCAS points a bloody insult and a stigma I didn't need or want.

Absolutely

Applebutt3r · 06/10/2024 17:01

CreateUserNames · 06/10/2024 16:53

Comparing to many others have challenges & don’t have access for good enough state schools, yes you are very lucky indeed. If you can’t see it, maybe that’s why you are so bitter towards private school parents.

Having an EHCP has little to do with what my child’s school is like. I’m sure most on this thread would be most scornful towards it.

Whatevers · 06/10/2024 17:02

Applebutt3r · 06/10/2024 15:20

It’s a start and every penny counts. Hope there will be much more.

I’d like uni places kept to the percentage of sector ie only 7% of places allocated to the privately educated or bonus UCAS points given to all students state educated with a further amount given to those in poverty or who have experienced hardship.

As long as all those places are at Oxbridge then we can agree. Deal done.

Another76543 · 06/10/2024 17:05

Afterrain · 06/10/2024 16:46

Surely, if there are redundancies in the private sector they can apply to be one of the 6,500 teachers the Government hope to recruit.
Also, if they have so much training in SEN they could be very useful in SEN units and support!

Many have worked in the state sector previously and wouldn’t return. They are likely to be driven abroad. This article highlights the “classroom brain drain”. Teachers are leaving in droves. Many private schools are increasingly expanding overseas so it will be fairly easy for them to transfer overseas. This country is driving people away.

https://apple.news/Af0-fwPd0RCGj8PA2NxWHOA

Where have all the teachers gone? Classroom brain drain as Britons lured abroad — The Times and The Sunday Times

As a young British maths teacher, Tilly Stewart belongs to a species in decline. Like a growing number of teachers, she is leaving her job at a secondary school in west London to work in a school in Australia. “Everyone knows someone who is going to te...

https://apple.news/Af0-fwPd0RCGj8PA2NxWHOA

Giraffebasket · 06/10/2024 17:05

KatieL5 · 06/10/2024 16:08

You’re coming across as being quite bigoted.

The issue with 'bright ideas' like 'state school pupils are more resilient' or 'state pupils should get extra UCAS points' is that they are based on the presumption that every private school student is actually stupid and bribed their way into Eton....

The massive 'unfairness' is the discrepancy between state schools - we which ALL pay for!

Applebutt3r · 06/10/2024 17:07

Giraffebasket · 06/10/2024 17:05

The issue with 'bright ideas' like 'state school pupils are more resilient' or 'state pupils should get extra UCAS points' is that they are based on the presumption that every private school student is actually stupid and bribed their way into Eton....

The massive 'unfairness' is the discrepancy between state schools - we which ALL pay for!

Not when the unfairness is concerning students with the same grades.

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