Doubts grow over Labour’s VAT plan for private schools

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Article in the Observer here:
https://www.theguardian.com/education/2024/oct/05/doubts-grow-over-labours-vat-plan-for-private-schools

I must say they've gone very quiet on it.

Better SEN provision isn’t necessarily an “advantage”. It’s about trying to level the playing the playing field with those without SEN. I cannot believe you are actually suggesting that parents with children with SEN are trying to buy an “advantage”.

there are tonnes of private schools near me and my children have attended state schools for 8 years now... not once have I seen or heard evidence of private school outreach at the schools my children attend.

I've two friends who've fought for three years to get their child into our local private school which has superb SEN provision. It's a hard long slog.

I mean it is. If my child had SEN I wouldn't be able to send them to a private school. No idea what I'd do actually.

You're right though, in these cases it is giving their child a more level playing field. It's just unfortunate that this is the case.

Just because you haven’t seen or heard about it doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. Pupils at state schools might not be particularly interested in where their teachers are from or realise they’re from the private sector. Our school definitely does it.

Outreach is quite naturally focused on less advantaged groups or schools. Maybe the
something about the area you live in (the fact that there are lots of private schools that, according to you, are full of very wealthy parents, is telling) or the school cohort.

Just because some private schools do this, doesn't mean it's common.

I live in SE London and there's a genuine mix of rich and deprived side by side. I'm neither.

YES a million times.

The fact they are getting away with it says a lot about human nature. People are happy to carp on about rich people being punished (yeah!) whilst conveniently ignoring the elephant in their own living room every single day. Their children are likely to be going to a shit state school.

Why aren’t people campaigning about it? Making waves, demonstrating? Telling Labour politicians to sort state schools out, stop fcking around with vat and ofsted ratings (all schools WILL be the same) and look at the root cause of bad state schools.

The truth hurts it’s also far more difficult to resolve.

I accept this is merely anecdata but i was helping out at my child,s independent (small, rural and non selective) open day yesterday.

Prospective parents have to book in their tours. Bookings were down by one third from the previous open day last march. and even then a further 10 per cent did not even turn up. In addition one of the teachers told me that their Finance team were in a bit of a frenzy with files going back a decade looking at what could be now reclaimed VAT wise on capital works. In the last ten years they have built a theatre, a sports pavilion and two new boarding schools. The theatre and sports facilities were lent for free to the local state schools and the sports hall was used for free for state school exams because they did not have their own space for that. That will all change now i am given to understand because there is a sense of defensiveness and if students will be lost and peripatetic teachers such as music teachers no longe being affordable there is a sense of wondering why they should give out their facilities for free now.

The Lib Dem’s want to encourage partnership between state and private. A far more positive policy. That’s why I voted for them. It’s also what my DC’s private school does as well as lots of other stuff including supporting vulnerable people in the community such as the elderly and adults with learning disabailoyes.

Where did I say we all sound the same? That we don’t sound like one thing doesn’t mean we all sound the same. It’s pretty simple.

Because many people aren’t remotely interested in improving state schools. It’s all about harming the private sector, and increasing equality that way. Let’s increase “equality” by removing the part which functions well, rather than improving the part which doesn’t. Harming the best performing schools is much easier and requires less effort than improving failing schools.

No, because the charitable element of private schools is supposed to be opened to the wider community (something which less than 5% of private schools abided by if you’d like a stat).

What the country en mass is sick to their teeth of, is the tone deaf cries of those that back private schools. They don’t care. They will never, ever care. Private schools do not support equality, they do not support the well-rounded education of society, and the biggest, most laughable conspiracy among private school parents is that they exist to support children or parents in any kind of need.

If parents want to know why their schools have become so unaffordable, they need to take a very hard look at the doorstep of the school’s themselves, who are out for no one but themselves and always have been. Why the fee rise of 75% since 2000? Why consistent fee rises above inflation? Why do a minimum number engage with the community outreach in place to at least justify a portion of their charitable status?

And why oh why should 95% of the country, who get zero benefit from any of it, give any of this a second thought?

I think you’ve missed the entire point of the post I was responding to. The Labour Party are benefitting from personally using independent schools’ facilities. Arguing that private schools don’t share facilities, then using those facilities themselves, is hypocritical at best.

Fees pay for teachers + pensions. 75% of a school's outgoings is staff. Plus rising costs of gas, electricity etc. I am happy to pay an annual fee rise of approximately 1K if it means having happy teaching staff.
What I object to is indy schools being scapegoated as the root of lack of funding in state sector.
Why is it our fault/responsibility that state sector is under funded when we already fully pay all taxes?
Why aren't Labour promising to increase funding of state schools to the extent that it will improve them? They told DfE to cut budgets by £1 billion, that's not the action of a party that cares about state education.

In case you are indeed unaware, SE London private schools including Dulwich, Alleyns and JAGS (amongst others) have quite a few outreach activities, including partnerships with local schools.

It's the perfect time to do it as the birth rate has plummeted since the current Y7/8s.

Hopefully we can reach a point where private education is a thing of the past and state schools are well-run and well-funded enough that current PS parents will be happy for their children to be educated there (no matter the area). It's a way off still but that is the dream.

(Former private school pupil and current state school teacher)

Why don't you and all the other champagne socialists who choose state schools, set up direct debits to voluntary pay more tax in order to improve the schools you use? Why is it the responsibility of 7% of parents to improve the schools that 93% use?

I’ve worked in two which don’t. And having worked In both state and independent, I think it’s more than a bit condescending. Why do you think it’ll ‘help’? The teachers in Indy were trained by the state (if they were trained at all). They aren’t any better.

How will that happen when Labour aren't increasing funding for schools above VAT which is a policy of diminishing returns?

The Labour Party is benefiting? Really?
Or maybe one or two children of labour politicians are using a facility which is quite nice to have but doesn’t actually ‘benefit’ them.

Hopefully we can reach a point where private education is a thing of the past and state schools are well-run and well-funded enough that current PS parents will be happy for their children to be educated there (no matter the area). It's a way off still but that is the dream

I agree this would be the dream, but I've not seen anything that makes me think that's going to happen in at least the next 20 years.

I don't know why then you've given it many hours of thought, let alone a second thought.

And the removal of those facilities, if it came to pass, would only have minimal and fleeting impact on those communities or on any Labour politicians. These arguments are worded as though they are somehow essential or depended on in any meaningful way that isn’t simply convenience. Therefore why should anyone care? Every Labour party member in history could have never touched a private school surface in their life and it still wouldn’t stop this incessant criticism of the policy.

You don’t want Labour politician’s integrity, you just want them to support and perpetuate private schools. They don’t.