To be unsure if daughter's emotional reaction was normal for her age

[ChitterChatter1987]

This morning she had a meltdown because I didn't have any money for her school snack which she usually has on a friday (handbag with purse in was left in our other car which DH had at work)

Cue her refusing to leave for school (shutting herself in the bathroom) eventually getting in the car but crying and protesting on the way, nothing i was saying made any difference, got out the car at school 5mins later and she was then throwing herself on the floor still upset, I did make the mistake of trying to reason with her, which I'm aware doesn't work well when kids are emotionally flooded but was mostly sympathetic, didn't get angry or anything.I did get abit irritated when we were going round in circles and she just couldn't accept that these things happen.I had her toddler sister crying at the same time and we were late for school, other parents watching etc so it was stressful, but I did try to remain calm.

But the issue then was her friend was having it today, so my only suggestion of having it another day didn't cut it in her eyes, nothing was working to help her feel better.

She cried and protested all the way into school aswell, i was expecting to have to sit and wait to calm her down but explained the situation and they then lent her some money for the snack, which was kind of them, and she then went in fairly OK.

She is being assessed for ASD/ADHD so I'm trying to figure out if such strong reactions (on occasion) like this are usual for a 7yo, or if they are an indicator of SEN.She doesn't express emotions strongly at school or demonstrate any extreme reactions to difficulties or disappointments (but they've said she could be masking)

No parenting judgement or negative child-blaming comments about her please...it's been a difficult morning for us both.

I'm simply here others to reply who've got/had young daughters both neurotypical aswell as neurodiverse (hence why not posting in SEN) as to whether this sort of thing happening was your experience or not.

Thanks :)

I think it could be either to be honest and depends on the child. I have a nephew with ASD and I also have a god daughter who is NT and a similar age to your daughter. My nephew would definitely react like this to not being able to have a snack that he usually has on a certain day, his upset wouldn’t really be about the snack though it would be about the last minute unexpected change to his routine, so the “you can have it another day” wouldn’t help him because it doesn’t change the fact that he usually has that specific thing on that specific day and now with short notice he’s found out it’s not happening, so it wouldn’t really be the snack he was upset about it, it would be the change to what he is used to.

My god daughter would be upset about not being able to have her snack if she was expecting to, and the fact her friend was having one and she wasn’t would make it worse because she would be jealous and wants what her friend has. I don’t think she’d be upset to this extent though, and telling her she could have a snack after school instead or another day would probably be enough to settle her because for her it would just be about the snack she wanted, rather than the routine.

Not a normal reaction IME . Maybe she was afraid to look different if she didn't have any money

I think that's a child dependent reaction. I'm pretty sure DS (ASD) wouldn't react like that. DD (NT) would probably have had a minor tantrum but not as bad as what you describe. But, I don't know how strict your school are over snacks. DC always shared whatever they took with their friends, especially if someone had forgotten to take theirs, so would be pretty sure of getting something anyway. If that wasn't allowed then I could see how it could be a BIG thing.

I don't know if this is any use to you, but my friend's daughter was like this. She had constant meltdowns and tantrums, and they were very worried about her. One day when she was seven it all stopped rather suddenly.

My daughter, who has, later in life, been assessed as having ADHD, would have got a grump on, with a face like a thundercloud, in such a situation. That girl should NEVER play poker. But she wouldn't have performed like that, no.

I had given her a brioche instead (I send her in with a snack on all days other than Friday) but she said she was really looking forward to having the school 'tuck shop' snack as her Friday treat.
I did say to her I understand why she was disappointed, but it was frustrating when nothing could be done to change the situation (well til we got to school and they lent us the money) but she just couldn't move on from or accept it.

I was going to say the latter too. If there was a social/ peer pressure type component - and children have all sorts of things like this going on in their lives - it could upset an NT child. For example if two best friends had been saying about how they were both looking forward to having it together, the whole disappointment can be increased beyond just the treat itself to something that impacts her interactions and she is also grappling with telling the friend and potentially disappointing her. Girls that age love to be “ the same.”

It’s still quite a feisty response even so - end of week tiredness maybe? Also don’t forget children can still just be acting over-indulged: awareness of ND doesn’t mean some children don’t just throw straightfowrd tantrums as well as more complicated ND meltdowns. When she’s calm you might be able to probe to see what lay behind it.

I wouldn’t be too alarmed. Could as wise PP said be to do with peer relationships. So you’re looking at it as being about the snacks whereas she is experiencing it in a wider context. Some kids / people are more intense than others. I have one easy going one - hardly any massive strops and another super intense, driven - big (big 🙄) emotions who might respond like this. I realised the one who is much more driven and volatile is like I was (I had forgotten !).
Also, often we had massive melt downs I would notice that they were over tired or they came down with a cold or a bug the next day. If it keeps happening try and agree on some tactics when she’s in a good mood and then keep an eye on it. FWIW my intense child now has really excellent forebearance and self control whereas my other one is now more emotional. Swings and roundabouts. Try not to worry tooo much x

What a little madam..

P.S Great you stayed calm. Well done ! It’s the best thing you can do for her.

I think factors like it's Friday, she's tired, she was excited about it were probably at play here.
All those things can make small people pretty irrational at times. It probably did seem like the end of the world to her.

I remember promising my son a cake from the coffee shop near his school as a treat after school one Friday. (It's expensive so we don't go there routinely!)
When it came to it, the shop was shut. He sulked and was grumpy all the way home and for a good hour after that. He was just bitterly disappointed.

Hopefully all is well now it has been resolved- hopefully you can have a lovely chilled weekend.

I have a 10 year old DD also awaiting assessment for ASD and possibly ADHD too and she can have big emotional reactions like this too. I also have an NT 8 year old and she might get upset over this as well but the difference is that she would get over it much quicker and I would be able to reason with her over it. As a PP said for an ND child it's not so much that she didn't get a snack it's that what was planned/agreed didn't happen and that the change in plan was last minute. I've found that the more you try to reason them out of it the worse you make it, they can't help their big reactions and aren't doing it on purpose. I've found just being with her and saying very little works best, appreciate that's no easy when you're just trying to get to school on time and with a toddler in tow too! Hugs to you as it's not easy.

Is it a combination of being 7 (I hated this age with both of mine), a Friday, end of the week, expectations not being met and just... big feelings?

Sometimes it DOES just all get too much - we forget our children are little, they don't have much experience of the world and they're just not very robust yet.

Not a good start to the morning, hope pick up goes better OP!

And yes to it being Friday adding to the issue. She'll likely be masking in school and be emotionally/socially exhausted at the end of the week.

And to be fair to children, if they didn’t let things like a cake from the shop matter to them greatly, the flip side is they would be much harder to please and delight.

A child who needs a major disappointment we might relate to - such as a house sale falling through - to get bitterly disappointed probably also requires something much greater to get excited about ( like a house purchase!) It’s part of being a child that small things loom large.

A ND child is more likely to have a deeper, longer lasting reaction to a trigger than a NT child. They are less likely to be appeased by an alternative solution leading to similar outcome (e.g. offering a different snack)

The disruption of the routine tends to be the sticking point which the alternative doesn't fully address; e.g. the process of buying a particular snack rather than just having a pleasant food avaliable.

At 7, DS1's "tantrums" hadn't developed significantly since he was a toddler. We'd have quieter and more intense phases, and it was an intense phase that led to me getting him referred. When I started focusing on all his character traits/ stengths/ difficulties, lots of links started forming and there was enough for the GP to take seriously.

Absolutely normal for a girl with autism. My DD was like this when her 'treats routine' was disrupted. She still struggles now even though she's 30 and her adult brain knows she's being ridiculous.

None of mine at 7 would have reacted like your DD but DD1’s best friend at school would have and did so very often. Over that type of situation. She had many really nice characteristics, was bright and kind natured and has never been assessed for ASD. She is now a primary school teacher. She “grew out” of the behaviour by the time she went to secondary school. It really is child dependant. Might be an indicator of ASD, but it really might not be.

The thing op that sticks out most to me was the fact she continued it on arrival at school.

My NT Dc can have strops in private but they tend to dry up promptly once third parties are in the vicinity. Doesn’t mean I might not get shot a parting filthy look for good measure! But generally speaking by that age they would care more about being seen having a tantrum at school than about the snack. Though I guess she calmed for the teacher so🤷🏻‍♀️ . But the arrival tantrum with parents watching seems to me a little atypical for a child of 7. The bit at home less so!

I’m wondering if this is less to do with the snack and more to do with the fact she was meant to be doing it with her friend. Is it a solid friendship or is she maybe trying really hard to do what the friend wants and is worried if she can’t/won’t the friendship will be lost? Aged 7/8 is so tricky for girl friendships and is a really stressful part of school to navigate.

DD was like that at that age tbh. It wouldn't actually be to do with snack but the change in agreement. Happy to say she grew out of it all a year or so later.

Too late now but I knew my child and what would have caused something like that to kick off so if I couldn't have found the money in the house I would have asked another parent, neighbour for the coin (can't imagine it's much) and paid them back later or asked in the office if they could see she got a snack and would settle up with them at home time, which would have been no problem at all in our school but appreciate might not be the case in others.

Could be typical but if you suspect ASD I'd say it's also very typical of an autistic child, because she was expecting something to be a certain way and then it was different. It's not so much a "tantrum" over not having the money as much as a reaction to the idea she had of how the day would be in her head being changed.

To add to that I am autistic and even still now at the big age of 33 I struggle with things like this, like for example if I was going to get a particular snack,that I always have on the weekend and the shop didn't have any I would get really overwhelmed and couldn't pick a different snack (even if it was one I liked better) and it throws my whole day off. I think it's something to do with quite rigid thinking and a difficulty with flexibility

My dd is younger. But she would be ok with the situation you have described maybe 4 times out of 5. And every now and again she would have the kind of meltdown that you described. Their resilience is still pretty limited so anything else going on (bad night’s sleep/ nervousness about a class they don’t like/ uncomfortable shoes etc) can mean that coping when things go wrong become very difficult. That’s if NT. And I guess it’s harder for a child to self regulate if they are ND.

Thanks so much everyone for so many helpful and supportive replies!
Yes initially it was disappointment that she couldn't have the treat she was looking forward to (i didn't realise beforehand how fussed she would be about missing one week otherwise would have ensured I had the money)
Then when we got to school I think she realised her friend would be having it and not her so it then turned into being upset that they couldn't have it together/DD would be left out, and she spoke about not wanting to see her friend eating it when she couldn't have it too as it would upset her.
I guess it's like her little routine with her friend and in future I'll keep some coins somewhere in the house as a back up!
I think it's the intensity of her disappointment and frustration that surprises me, but it's interesting to hear that some have seen similar in both ND and NT kids/girls of the same age.