To be fed of of vile comments re disability and pip- so come on those people suggest a job for me.

[Laughydodo]

Named changes for this

Fed up of the vile comments about disability including on mumsnet.
(I know it’s a minority on here). Especially against those who claim PIP.

Fed up of feeling like a second class citizen because I claim benefits.

Fed up of people saying my mental health will improve if I am at work.

Fed up of disability top trumps with people saying things like- I have this , this and this disability and I manage to work.

Fed up that some people seem be hoping that Pip is abolished and then people like us will have to find another way to support ourselves. Also so fearful of this happening.

I clung onto work for years with having epilepsy and fibromyalgia. Fighting to stay in while employers were trying everything to get rid of me. I would be let go from one job on health grounds only to start the process again and it end the same way.

I now claim pip and esa as i have up to 20 seizures a week. Half of which I lose my memory and speech (I don’t even recognise my husband at times) and are totally wiped out for half a day at least . Would love some of the smug arseholes that’s seem to think everyone can work find someone who is willing to employ me. Oh and I piss myself as well and lose control of my bowels with many of my seizures. This is without the pain of fibro coming into it all.

So come on then these people on here who think all disabled people should work- suggest all the jobs that I can do that will benefit my mental health so I won’t be a burden on the state. Would you honestly be happy to employ me?

Sorry but the self righteous comments from people who dont have a clue is really starting to boil my piss. Oh and one day it might happen to them. I was 22 when I developed epilepsy, 30 when I got fibro after having glandular fever. I would not wish this one anyone obviously but people seem to forget that disability can happen at any time.

So waiting for the jobs suggestions to begin and the list of employers that would employ me-

I don’t think people are bothered about legitimate claims like yours. I do think it is odd when people grumble about having to be assessed for it though. How else could the system work? A lot of people get turned down (I read somewhere that it was over half) so there must be quite a high number who want to take advantage of the system.

But that doesn't really answer the point of who is going to employee some of these people. We might as a society decide to no longer support the disabled and leave it to charities, families, begging and presumably premature death for some, but that doesn't make them employable.

This I attempted suicide during my pip process it's literally hell on earth I was awarded high rate for 3 years I'm filled with absolute dread of having to repeat the process when the time comes

I don't disagree with assessment but there are ways to do it. They shouldn't be dismissing medical evidence and making up blatant lies about applicants.

That's the issue. Are denials because people are gaming the system, or because the system is designed to generate denials and keep people off? of course people have got to be assessed, but we know from previous experience with disability claims that the assessments are not always designed to be fair. Even when the system isn't absolutely ridiculous and denying clear cut cases to wear people out, there's quite a lot of conditions that have a range of severity or where the assessment could have a degree of subjectivity in terms of someone's work capability.

It actually makes me laugh when people say that others should work without knowing the full story. I currently work part time but that is down to having an amazing supportive employer which most don't have. But the reality of working with me is I'm absent alot so you will need to cover my shifts for hospital appointment I usually have 1 or 2 a week. I then have weeks I can't get out of bed so you will have to cover that I get hospitalised a lot usually 3/4 times a year often for weeks at a time I usually have surgery at least once a year also I sometimes have psychotic breakdowns and can become quite homicidal but I'm sure you don't mind working with people like that as long as their working my boss and another colleague has had to take me from work to a&e on 2 separate occasions one for an overdose and once for being psychotic and homicidal so not only do you need to cover my shift but also other staff members who have to deal with me shifts but I'm working so it's fine mumsnet is happy

A high proportion of those turned down then turn out to be eligible after all, when they appeal and it's taken to a panel. The reason so many are turned down is the culture of assessors having targets to meet and of employing assessors who are not actually qualified in the area of disability they're assessing.

A number of people, for example, are turned down simply for turning up, because being able to get somewhere on time suggests you can get to work. That's why disabled people are advised by charities supporting them to take someone with them when they attend, as managing to get there alone is seen as a point against you.

One of my friends who is too ill to wash or dress turned up not having washed for a month and in clothes she'd slept in, but was turned down for looking clean (the written assessment described her as clearly being able to wash and dress as she looked presentable).

And this is the real issue. Benefits are there for people who genuinely need them. People like yourself and your friend. And I very much think that they should be ringfenced against fluctuations in income. Everyone should be allowed to "have a go" without losing essential support. Punitive system which reduces your payments without any indication of whether you are able to consistently earn money and support yourself is setting people up to fail. I know a lot of people in your position who could theoretically "have a go" but are terrified of losing what little support they have. It's not right and it's not really working in the way that the government intends it to work. There should be a cooling off period, say, they can only review your benefits 3 months after starting a job or side-hussle.
PIP isn't even means-tested but I worked with people who were refused PIP on the basis that they work or drive. I.e. if you can work/drive, then you are not disabled enough. Of course, this lame justification is usually thrown out at the appeal but it shouldn't even be there in the first place.
Fundamentally, a lot of chronically ill people I work with are desperate to work but they either can't find a suitable employer or are terrified to lose their benefits without knowing for a fact that they can sustain employment.

As for how else could the system work, it's very simple and could save the huge amounts of money (currently paid to private companies: turning disabled people down for benefits is an industry, which is why the UK has been investigated by the UN human rights commission) : accept the applicants' GP and consultants' reports as the most accurate assessment of someone's health, rather than a private company employee with a biased remit.

My mil had severe epilepsy so much so she was banned from driving for many years. She worked in the doctors surgery on reception and in the council tax office before retirement. Not sure if that would work for you as you are asking.

However, pip etc is not granted lightly so you are clearly in a bad way, do you really want to put yourself through that?

They do it over the phone now so at least there is that. But I am also aware that a lot of applicants try their very hardest to "look good" for the assessor and we end up with comments of how well they coped and how they were able to communicate during the lengthy assessment. Never mind that they were in bed for 6 days afterwards recovering.
So now I always make a point of telling people to be honest, ask to take breaks, ask for an interview to be split into several stages. It's not helping anyone to be putting your best foot forward and masking real symptoms just so that you can go through the PIP interview quicker. It all goes against you in the end.

For a thread that's about showing more kindness and understanding, there's a lot of aggression towards anyone explaining a different perspective.

You don't have to agree with them but a pile on to someone sharing their own mental health journey seems inappropriate for a topic about poor attitudes towards disabilities.

I don’t really know. I do know when I applied for a temporary blue badge in an area that was notoriously hard to get one(central London), the assessor stopped me half way through my interview and said something along the lines of ‘you clearly need this so let’s get this form filled out so that you definitely get it’. I wasn’t that needy, so clearly she saw a lot of piss takers. Where there is money going or free parking, there are always people ready to take advantage.

Does any other country have the equivalent of PIP. Not as far as I know. I'd like to see it abolished and replaced.

That would be very expensive.

DLA was abolished and replaced with PIP. The roll out of replacing DLA with PIP hasn't even been totally completed yet, over a decade later.

I don't think you will get your wish to abolish PIP just yet @Viviennemary

Soz.

As so often with threads about PIP, a lot of posters seem to be unaware that PIP is not dependent on whether you can work or not. It is to assessed on whether you can do day to day tasks as easily and quickly as someone without disabilities could. Or do you need special equipment? Help from someone else? More time? Reminding to do things?
You can, in theory, get PIP and work. Not working is covered by other benefits such as UC for which the claimant may by assessed low capability for work and therefore receive a higher rate.

That sounds awful OP. People can be very ignorant!

I know you aren't looking for work right now, but a friend of mine with similar health issues has a great job, which might be something you could do (obviously if you wanted to...no judgement at all from me!)

She works from home for a funeral company, dealing with claims and payments. It is very flexible and she sets her own hours, so when she's had an episode, she has time to recover.

I hope you are able to 'shut out the noise' of all the ignorant people OP 💐

Sorry this has turned into another disability benefits bashing thread @Laughydodo

MNHQ would not allow this constant demonising of any other minority. It is shameful.

You can't get a real idea by talking to someone for an hour.

Some of the rubbish that was claimed during my assessment:
I'm not hearing impaired and don't need hearing therapy. She had to ask what one of my diagnoses was. I'm also sure the NHS don't send people to specialists for fun
I've chosen not to drive. This was BEFORE she did an eye test on me. I managed 3 lines. You have to be able to read 6 lines to pass the eye test for driving . It's actually harder for me to drive because of the nature of my visual impairment
I don't get help from social services therefore my disabilities aren't that bad. The same social services who have no understanding of hypersensitivite hearing and Autism
I can read bus numbers. I keep flagging down buses with "sorry not in service" or the wrong number
I have no problems crossing roads. I kept having to report dodgy parking because I've almost been run over

Did you also read that 70% go to tribunal and win?

Yes they do. There are constant pensioner bashing threads on here. As a disabled pensioner, I seem to get it from both angles. 🙄

If it’s epilepsy, look into the keto diet. Awaiting attacks here but I dgaf, if it helps one person I’m glad I spoke. See the film ‘first do no harm’ with Meryl Streep, look into it x Sending you love and hope 💖

Yes, that is true. I am sorry you are getting a double dose of the hate.

Is it 70% of the people who decide to go to tribunal win or 70% of all people who get turned down go to tribunal and they all win?

I completely and utterly understand why you started this thread. Mumsnet can be a cold house for people on sickness benefits. So many threads where a poster can't decide whether to report someone for benefit fraud because they have seen that person - oh deary me - walking/talking/tying their own shoelaces. A couple of snapshots of a person's life and they think they know it all. The amount of money received is a pittance and still people are resentful. Not many employers are understanding about an unpredictable and fluctuating condition meaning that a person could be in work for two days, off for three, in again for one, that they might frequently need to come in late, have multiple hospital/doctors' appointments etc. That is why many people have no option but to go on ESA. And don't get me started on PIP.

Sorry you're feeling this way @Laughydodo. I'm not in this position myself, but very close to someone who is.

@Diomi it's 70% of those that go to appeal/tribunal win their case. Many people give up either before attempting a mandatory reconsideration, or after MR (but decide not to proceed to appeal). Stats are published by the government e.g. www.gov.uk/government/statistics/personal-independence-payment-statistics-to-january-2024/personal-independence-payment-official-statistics-to-january-2024

Indeed. But the answer isn't to force people into work they're incapable of, its to tackle the reasons people are too ill to work at source. Many people are on sickness benefits because they are waiting for treatment and operations. Many others because delays in diagnosis and treatment turned an acute problem into a chronic one. People's mental health doesn't improve because the services that should support them are poor to non existent. I'm firmly of the opinion that work is good for wellbeing, but forcing people into it without addressing their health conditions is putting the cart before the horse. Also, work should not be 'stressful' if you're in a job conversent with your capabilities where you are treated well and the demands on you reasonable, it should not impact your MH. If our default is 'work is stressful' then there's something needing to be addressed there too.