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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think increasing pension age isn’t going to add up?

306 replies

Tiredandconfused23 · 03/10/2024 09:43

I was reading a few recent studies about the employment situation for over 50s, basically confirming how this age group struggles to return to work, is more likely to be laid off and/or forced into early retirement and how a far higher proportion are in poverty and/or insecure employment than other age groups. And how, despite years of pushback against age bias, it’s only increased in recent years.

If we accept this, I can’t help feeling the idea that increasing the pension age so we work longer, thus save money on benefits, isn’t going to add up. Many people in their fifties would happily carry on working - the issue is many employers may not want us. You can’t keep working if there’s no job to work at.

AIBU to think we may soon be facing a load of older people on benefits, often through no fault of trying, rather than claiming a pension? Would this be seen as still more favourable by the Government?

OP posts:
Superworm24 · 03/10/2024 15:01

Meadowfinch · 03/10/2024 14:37

@Superworm24 You say 'fairly distributed' but what does that mean?

I started work as a cleaner when I was 13. I'm now 61 so I've worked for 48 years. Full time for 40 years. I have NI qualifying payments between 16 and 21 despite being full time at school and then university at the same time. I now have 45 years NI paid.

I've paid 35 years of higher rate tax.

Does that mean I have 'paid my share'? When can I stop feeling guilty that I haven't?

Until you can state a level at which this is achieved, making the accusation that the boomers take more than they are entitled to, is grossly unfair. Most of us did what was asked of us by govt at the time, and more.

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The fairly distributed remark was in the PP that I quoted. Someone said that there is money but it isn't fairly distributed. So I was asking, if it could be found, why it should be used to finance earlier retirement than be spent on other things.

And again the "paid your share" comment was also directed at a pp. People always say that pensioners have paid their share but in reality most of us take more than we put in. I also never mentioned the baby boomer generation. I'm talking generally about all of us. Why should we get to retire and then potentially live another 30 years and expect our children and grandchildren to pay the bill.

You don't have to feel guilty but I do. I think it's utterly shit that the younger generations are being screwed over so badly. I don't want to retire in my 60s at the expense of others. I don't think it's a bad thing to recognise how privileged I am.

I don't know what the solution is. The whole mess is complicated but kicking the can down the road isn't it.

LostittoBostik · 03/10/2024 15:05

@HotSource those living on only the state pension already get pension credit so can continue to get the winter allowance

Under claiming of pension credit (which will also give access to the fuel payments ) is a massive problem that Labour wants to fix too

GertrudePerkinsPaperyThing · 03/10/2024 15:05

BIossomtoes · 03/10/2024 14:43

Come off it. I’m a boomer who was a single parent for most of my Gen X kid’s childhood. Like you, I worked full time, did all the housework and was responsible for everything. I was by no means alone.

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I was really clean to say not everyone and that I don’t agree with generalisations being taken too far.

In this instance I am using a generalisation because I’m taking about averages, on the whole, as a population.

Most “boomer” parents did one role per parent - fathers went out to work, and maybe did a bit of DIY or financial life admin, and mothers stayed at home and kept the home. Obviously not everyone did but this was very common, and an average set up. Or the Mum worker part time.

There were fewer single parents - this wasn’t always a positive because women were often stuck in unhealthy marriages but they didn’t do two working days every day as much.

Inslopia · 03/10/2024 15:06

Do all gen X and millenials on here realise that in about 20-30 years you are going to take over as the most hated generation of all time?

So we shouldn’t discuss an ageing population because of this?

LostittoBostik · 03/10/2024 15:06

Teateaandmoretea · 03/10/2024 12:38

The picture is a lot more mixed than these threads of doom and gloom paint.

A lot of people still do retire at a fairly young age or choose semi-retirement with freelance etc work (hence they are employed less ‘securely’). So it’s choice. Older people can and do get jobs. I certainly am not planning to work into my 70s.

For the future contribution defined pensions can be passed on in inheritance, so some younger people will inherit pension pots off parents, this wasn’t possible with final salary in the same way. There are advantages to this type of pension you just need to pay enough in (which obviously can be challenging)

Personally it baffles me how people upsize their lives to fit with their salaries, and mumsnet reflects this - I remember a thread recently with people measuring how rich people they knew were by the cars they drive….. Other people stay in their smaller house, drive cheaper cars and save. Yes not everyone can afford to but some people have more money than it appears.

Anyone with savings won’t be eligible for UC either, obviously.

also not true - you can have £16k in cash savings (not including pension) and still apply for UC

GertrudePerkinsPaperyThing · 03/10/2024 15:06

SmileyHappyPeopleInTheSun · 03/10/2024 14:44

I can’t see Gen X women living as long as other generations!

If we worked longer and died sooner meaning fewer years of paying state pension that would suit the government coffers quite well.

Yes I’m sure - and I think that’s what will happen.

Theres not a chance in hell I’ll be as fit and healthy as my mum is at her age. Not begrudging her, just acknowledging.

BlackShuck3 · 03/10/2024 15:08

Tiredandconfused23 · 03/10/2024 14:57

There are too many people, with too self-interested a viewpoint, for Universal Income to become a thing easily. If it does, it will be amidst much kicking and screaming. Not just from corporate elites either - you only have to look at the perennial complaints from a substantial portion of the population against those receiving benefits or seeking asylum getting, in their view, something for nothing.

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What about a version of UBI where you got a basic income for doing a certain amount of menial work every week? When I say menial work I mean work that no one else wants to do and where the employers find it difficult to recruit.

Inslopia · 03/10/2024 15:09

@MonkeyToHeaven When you put it like that I think it will be even harder to convince society to improve things for others!

GertrudePerkinsPaperyThing · 03/10/2024 15:09

Dwappy · 03/10/2024 14:59

Do all gen X and millenials on here realise that in about 20-30 years you are going to take over as the most hated generation of all time? Once the boomers are all dead and forgotten about it will all be your fault. You'll be seen as the lucky ones who ruined it for everyone else.

Well, we’ll see. It depends what we do now that we are beginning to see Gen X and Millenial leaders of countries - alongside some younger boomers who seem like Gen X (Starmer, Harris if she gets in etc)

We haven’t actually had a Gen X PM of the UK yet - we’ve just got from boomers, to Sunak who is a millennial, back to a boomer again (although I think Starmer acts like one of “us”)

BlackShuck3 · 03/10/2024 15:11

LostittoBostik · 03/10/2024 15:06

also not true - you can have £16k in cash savings (not including pension) and still apply for UC

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How long before you can only get UC if your assets are under a certain value and you have to accept cameras in your house (or some other kind of monitoring) to prove that you aren't hiding anything?

BlackShuck3 · 03/10/2024 15:14

@GertrudePerkinsPaperyThing surely David Cameron is gen X?

Ariela · 03/10/2024 15:16

I got current job by NOT putting my age on the application, and shuffling previous work to a paragraph eg 'After a career in q field.....where my skills included x, y, z etc etc'. Directors were a bit taken aback when they realised I'm a good 10 years+ older than they thought - but they value my experience and all is good.

GertrudePerkinsPaperyThing · 03/10/2024 15:16

BlackShuck3 · 03/10/2024 15:14

@GertrudePerkinsPaperyThing surely David Cameron is gen X?

Oh he seems older! 😂

Thats a very black mark for us as he was such a fool

godmum56 · 03/10/2024 15:19

Dwappy · 03/10/2024 11:00

Yeah getting rid of state pension for all and means testing it when you've been told all your life to ensure you pay in enough to get it and then having it taken away won't go down well.
It's bad enough that even if you don't, you just get pension credit. I was always taught by my parents I needed to work to get enough years to get my pension. But it seems that even if you don't, you just get pension credit instead which gives you the same as pension.
Unless people are very well paid, most people won't have enough for retirement if they take away state pension as they've been budgeting for it.

some of us have already been lied to regarding the change to pension age. We were told one thing for most of our working lives then told another.

BooseysMom · 03/10/2024 15:20

mummymeister · 03/10/2024 12:30

I think the hope from successive governments is that we will reach some sort of tipping point where there are so many over 50s looking for work that the employment situation for them will have to improve in order for the jobs that need doing to still get done. the pension age is way too low in my opinion. when it first came in the average life span for a man was 66 (so one year above the pension age) and 71 for women. it was never intended for people to stay on the pension for years and years as they do now.

What's the point of a pension then if you can't stay on it for a good number of years?

Original poster
Tiredandconfused23 · 03/10/2024 15:25

GertrudePerkinsPaperyThing · 03/10/2024 15:16

Oh he seems older! 😂

Thats a very black mark for us as he was such a fool

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Just don’t mention Liz Truss… 😬

OP posts:
GertrudePerkinsPaperyThing · 03/10/2024 15:27

Tiredandconfused23 · 03/10/2024 15:25

Just don’t mention Liz Truss… 😬

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Ok ignore everything I said!

Teateaandmoretea · 03/10/2024 15:32

LostittoBostik · 03/10/2024 15:06

also not true - you can have £16k in cash savings (not including pension) and still apply for UC

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It is true - as you say the maximum savings is 16k, that isn’t a lot.

Reugny · 03/10/2024 15:40

BIossomtoes · 03/10/2024 15:00

So true. Particularly those who inherit their boomer parents’ ill gotten gains.

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Lots of Gen X don't have boomer parents. 😉

Not everyone has children young, and actually this is becoming more of an issue due to the lack of affordable housing meaning that people are having less children due to having children later.

Reugny · 03/10/2024 15:42

Teateaandmoretea · 03/10/2024 15:32

It is true - as you say the maximum savings is 16k, that isn’t a lot.

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The saving amounts for benefits have stayed the same since they have been introduced.

ImNunTheWiser · 03/10/2024 15:51

BIossomtoes · 03/10/2024 13:46

Paying your share is paying everything expected of you throughout your working life based on your tax liability. I’d lay money on most people covering what they take out. The working life of today’s retirees spans roughly 50 years in most cases. Between income tax (which was over 30% basic rate when most of them started work), NI, VAT, stamp duty, fuel tax and council tax, they’re pretty certain to have paid their share. Add in that a high proportion continue to pay income tax in retirement, along with all the other taxes apart from NI.

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If you’re talking about the Baby Boomer generation, then on average they are not net contributors, no.

SmileyHappyPeopleInTheSun · 03/10/2024 15:57

Inslopia · 03/10/2024 15:06

Do all gen X and millenials on here realise that in about 20-30 years you are going to take over as the most hated generation of all time?

So we shouldn’t discuss an ageing population because of this?

Aren't we the most likely to be affected as workers now paying higher tax - and when we get older being one who face higher retirement ages and lower benefits?

A few boomers have been caught by higher pension ages - especially some women and I agree it's not been fair but if retirement ages keep creeping up what they hell will they be in 20-30 years time and where will we all be trying to finding work in our 70s.

Reugny · 03/10/2024 16:03

SmileyHappyPeopleInTheSun · 03/10/2024 15:57

Aren't we the most likely to be affected as workers now paying higher tax - and when we get older being one who face higher retirement ages and lower benefits?

A few boomers have been caught by higher pension ages - especially some women and I agree it's not been fair but if retirement ages keep creeping up what they hell will they be in 20-30 years time and where will we all be trying to finding work in our 70s.

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The boomers who were caught up in the higher retirement ages were just unlucky in the fact that the governments from 1980 onwards who knew there was a demographic time bomb kicked the can down the road.

BIossomtoes · 03/10/2024 16:06

ImNunTheWiser · 03/10/2024 15:51

If you’re talking about the Baby Boomer generation, then on average they are not net contributors, no.

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I think you might find we are if you look at contributions over a lifetime. Many of us were higher rate tax payers for 20+ years while taking nothing in healthcare or education.

DoraSpenlow · 03/10/2024 16:09

GertrudePerkinsPaperyThing

"Most “boomer” parents did one role per parent - fathers went out to work, and maybe did a bit of DIY or financial life admin, and mothers stayed at home and kept the home. Obviously not everyone did but this was very common, and an average set up. Or the Mum worker part time."

I 'm of the boomer generation and although I didn't have children I don't know of anyone amongst my friends and relatives who had that set up. I wouldn't think it was average or common at all. Only for the very well off.