To think increasing pension age isn’t going to add up?

[Tiredandconfused23]

I was reading a few recent studies about the employment situation for over 50s, basically confirming how this age group struggles to return to work, is more likely to be laid off and/or forced into early retirement and how a far higher proportion are in poverty and/or insecure employment than other age groups. And how, despite years of pushback against age bias, it’s only increased in recent years.

If we accept this, I can’t help feeling the idea that increasing the pension age so we work longer, thus save money on benefits, isn’t going to add up. Many people in their fifties would happily carry on working - the issue is many employers may not want us. You can’t keep working if there’s no job to work at.

AIBU to think we may soon be facing a load of older people on benefits, often through no fault of trying, rather than claiming a pension? Would this be seen as still more favourable by the Government?

Obviously though to actually have a better society (easily achieved by ending the false economy approach, as I detailed above), it's necessary for a majority public consensus and to demand that

It’s really not easy to have a huge shift in society re how we do things. I think you’re a little naive.

The positions of the Government and a companies are at odds.

True - we may see more age legislation brought it when they realise this.

However assumption seems to be that as younger workers get scarcer they'll change to hang onto workers - not sure that will follow as easily as they think.

Though have heard in USA they are not happy with newest generation of graduates often firing them few years in - they often aren't willing to put crazy hours in pervious generations did and can be more demanding in other ways. Not sure what their company plans are to fill those needed spaces.

When I started full time work in 1983 my pension age was 60 for the state pension and now it is 67 (although I will probably work (for myself) until I die). Retirement age is a difficult issue and people live different lengths of time. My parents died in their 70s so I probably won't have too long if I ever do retire whereas I seem to be surrounded by neighbours in late 80s and even 90s still going strong!

@Inslopia
I wouldn't say I'm naive at all. In fact I'm often quite pessimistic - or maybe, more accurate to say, a realist) about human nature. People (not everybody) seem more content to blame the Other, rather than realising it's perfectly possible to have, and then advocate for, a better society for all.

So, I'm just saying what should happen. Whether it will is up to all of us. If enough people want and call for it, instead of engaging in the pitting groups against each other game, than it can happen. Easily. Whether enough people will realise that? Well that is an unknown.

This

@Windchimesandsong blaming the other is human nature though.

@Windchimesandsong I apologise if I have been harsh on you. I just think it’s a bit pointless to talk about what we should & shouldn’t do without any realistic solutions. We shouldn’t have famine & yet we do, etc.

I also believe we have to acknowledge the issue to find realistic solutions & as I said pages back many just don’t want to even acknowledge the fact we have an ageing population.

I wouldn’t be losing my money at all because that’s a snapshot in time in 2022 which doesn’t take into account contributions over a working life of around 50 years. I didn’t say you shouldn’t pay tax in retirement, did I?

@Superworm24 You say 'fairly distributed' but what does that mean?

I started work as a cleaner when I was 13. I'm now 61 so I've worked for 48 years. Full time for 40 years. I have NI qualifying payments between 16 and 21 despite being full time at school and then university at the same time. I now have 45 years NI paid.

I've paid 35 years of higher rate tax.

Does that mean I have 'paid my share'? When can I stop feeling guilty that I haven't?

Until you can state a level at which this is achieved, making the accusation that the boomers take more than they are entitled to, is grossly unfair. Most of us did what was asked of us by govt at the time, and more.

I don't think legally you can pay a relative to care for you without a court order.

In answer to that question on Google you get -

"This is possible , but only after a Court of Protection Order has been obtained to make sure that the conflict of interest between relative and carer has been managed."

It is not as easy as giving up your job to care for a relative and them paying you a salary. However there is no cap or rules as to how much is paid to a private company which is ridiculous.

No need at all to apologise @Inslopia
It's a discussion and we're all going to have different opinions - but also if ever it's possible to improve anything it's usually necessary to debate what can and/or should be done, and how best to achieve that.

I can’t see Gen X women living as long as other generations!

Being the generation who thought we could “have it all” translating to “do it all” - we went and go out to work full time with little break for children but the men folk hadn’t caught up yet with their attitudes to childcare and housework. I see an improvement in millennial and Gen Z men (overall, obviously not speaking for everyone and i agree classifying people into generations is a blunt tool).

We surely won’t live as long as our boomer mothers who, whilst frustrated in their own ambitions, on average didn’t do two working days worth of work every day like we do! (I’m a single parent now having been married to a Gen X man who certainly hadn’t caught up on his side of the bargain)

Fair point @Windchimesandsong. I guess we just disagree on what solutions are realistic ones.

Come off it. I’m a boomer who was a single parent for most of my Gen X kid’s childhood. Like you, I worked full time, did all the housework and was responsible for everything. I was by no means alone.

I can’t see Gen X women living as long as other generations!

If we worked longer and died sooner meaning fewer years of paying state pension that would suit the government coffers quite well.

They getting it left, right and centre, aren't they?

I’m a boomer

Im shocked! 😆😆😆

I guess universal income will be in place by then i expect

That is the beauty of averages. And as I said it doesn't take into account the cost of health care or education. Most of us take out far more than we contribute.

I think governments will need to find ways to penalize those who are too healthy and live too long. They would prefer it if we gave our all during our working lives (so that the wealthy can stay wealthy off of the backs of the normal people) and then died quite quickly after becoming no longer up to working that hard.

There are too many people, with too self-interested a viewpoint, for Universal Income to become a thing easily. If it does, it will be amidst much kicking and screaming. Not just from corporate elites either - you only have to look at the perennial complaints from a substantial portion of the population against those receiving benefits or seeking asylum getting, in their view, something for nothing.

It’s got nothing to do with averages. It completely disregards decades of tax paid over a lifetime. It would only be meaningful if it did.

Do all gen X and millenials on here realise that in about 20-30 years you are going to take over as the most hated generation of all time? Once the boomers are all dead and forgotten about it will all be your fault. You'll be seen as the lucky ones who ruined it for everyone else.

I'm not so sure. I've seen a huge shift since my teens. What were public assets; gas, electric, rail, telecoms, water etc are now private. We have private companies involved in our prisons & healthcare etc. Free education for life has gone along with free prescriptions.

We've gone from an outward looking society that prided itself on its welfare state to a reactionary insular one that seems to want to punitive action on anyone who needs help from it, including the poor and disabled.

So true. Particularly those who inherit their boomer parents’ ill gotten gains.