AIBU to think Private School isn’t worth the expense?

[Macaronsandcupcakes]

In my area (Bristol) all the private schools I’ve spoken to have admitted they will eventually pass on the 20% VAT (I’m not objecting the govt policy). This means the cheapest school will be charging £7k+ per term. For one child from yr 7 to complete their GCSE’s it’ll be £110k.

I completely understand the schools get better grades, but other than grades why is it worth it? Has your child significantly benefited?

Articles I’ve recently read suggest that the anti private discussions are gaining momentum, both from universities & employees.

My partner is keen to send our children. But I need convincing.

It's an analogy. It's not perfect. It was there to illustrate how the state might make a provision to meet a basic human right for everyone and yet it still to be reasonable for people who can afford it and who value something above and beyond state provision to choose to opt out and buy elsewhere. You are arguing with the practicalities of real implementation of my fantasy analogy (for fucks sake it would be perfectly possible to dole out bread by using a voucher system for £X tokens to be used for bread in any major supermarket but that's completely beside the point and irrelevant because it's not about bread. Have you not been taught about analogies and metaphores?)

I know that "perfectly satisfactory" isn't a glowing endorsement but it's the best that can be said of what goes on in many even "outstanding" schools a lot of the time. It doesn't mean bad or poor quality, it means that it's the best that can reasonably be achieved within a reasonable budget. Nothing wrong with that. I think people taking offense at my analogy are being a bit hypersensitive. There's no criticism towards being satisfied with the option that is the standard default for the vast majority of the population. I haven't called anything crap.

What struck me in that post was how utterly deluded it was.

it's an appalling analogy and tantamount to a strawman argument.
I wasn't replying to you initially, I was actually replying to someone saying it was a brilliant analogy. Not sure why you're defending it so much.

@mugboat I do think its a good analogy because what @CoughedBulldozerNumber is trying to say is that in all walks of life we have choices - sometimes state sponsored - and yet we choose to go for a more expensive option as we perceive it to be valuable to us. She is not disparaging the default option, but simply pointing out that as we do with bread, healthcare and other things - we can choose to pay and get something we perceive is important to us. I don't see why you are taking it so personally.

People don't like to admit this but it's true. I've just moved DS. At his old state school his class was evacuated multiple times a day due to outbursts from kids and when he wasn't being evacuated he was accompanying kids to the chill-out room and being used to manage poor behaviour. Meantime I was paying for a tutor to actually teach him.

DD is still at the same state school and is thankfully having a better experience, or at least, is able to cope better with it. But she'll be moved to private for secondary.

Our local secondary school is rife with bullying, fighting and intimidating behaviour. The kids hang about in the local park setting bins on fire.

Obviously not all state schools are like this and this is why people pay £££ to move into the catchment of the best ones.

it might be true in one school, but at primary, this is practically unheard of. I used to teach primary and spent a whole year as a supply teacher in some of the most deprived areas in the country. Not once did I have to evacuate the classroom.
Behaviour in most primary state schools is good.

@mugboat wow - I'm not even in a deprived area. In fact it's considered a desirable area and primary school. But most classes contain at least a few children who disrupt the entire class. Where I live there's not enough support for SEND children and they're mainly in mainstream schools. Plus behaviour seems to be getting worse. Great to hear that's not the case across the whole country and it's an isolated thing. Sadly I'm in that isolated area.

It's really common in primary in my area. The Local Authority doesn't have enough special school places and increasingly complex children are placed mainstream where they can't cope. They have meltdowns (not naughty behaviour but a fairly inevitable consequence of being in the wrong place with the wrong support) and the standard advice is to evacuate the rest of the class to keep them safe. I work across 4 schools, and my children went to a further sets of schools and this was a very common procedure in the last 3-5 years.

disrupt the class enough that the class needs to be evacuated several times a day?

I do not believe that it's common practice to evacuate a primary class several times a day.

@mugboat yes if a child starts attacking a teacher then the protocol is that the class is evacuated. If the child is having a bad day that can happen several times. It only takes a couple of children with special needs for this to be the case.

@mugboat when did you last teach? It sounds like your experience isn't in line with what is currently happening in schools.

There's not much I can say if you don't believe it.

However it is the standard advice given by STIPs in my area and if a child with very complex needs that has meltdowns is in a class, that is what happens, sometimes several times a day. Not every day, not every single class but it also not uncommon or rare to be in a primary school where that happens.

well, this never happened in the schools I taught at, at my daughters' school or at any of my friends' kids schools. If classes up and down the country were constantly having to evacuate (someone said this happened several times a day) it would be well known.

I am not a teacher now, but I have children at a state primary and have lots of friends who have children at other local primaries. If classes were constantly needing to be evacuated (as someone said this happens several times a day) I think we would all be talking about it.

I am sure that is the protocol for children attacking teachers, but I simply do not believe this happens in state primaries up and down the land.

And obviously not all state school kids set bins on fire, what a ridiculous notion, there are bad apples in all walks of life

But we are all talking about it?

There's masses of threads that start with aibu my sons class was evacuated today and loads go, yeah this happens a lot and lots of children hardly notice as its standard. They all just get told they are doing thier daily mile or heading to the library to pick a book.

There have been long twitter threads from the behaviour tzar saying he thinks its terrible practice and slt should come remove the child not the class leave.

Whilst, every class is not being evacuated several times a day, it is entirely feasible that particular posters child was in a class where that was happening for a short time. She even says her her other child class was not like that.

I am sure it is happening in some schools in some classes... but this is definitely not a common occurance.
I find that Twitter is rather hyperbolic and wouldn't use this as an indication of the general state of the nation's primary schools.
According to Twitter, London is a no-go area where people walk around cowering in fear of being attacked by immigrants.

@Allfur i don’t disagree with your last comment but it would be naive to believe that some schools don’t have more problems then others. I went to a private school and dh did say that the worst behaved kids at our school would have been average if not good behaviour for some other schools. skipping class and smoking was pretty much as bad as behaviour got. there was no being aggressive towards teachers, destroying school property etc.

only once did a teacher run out the class once in tears when a fight broke out in class but that was the only time there was ever a disruption

Ha yes I take your point about twitter. But I am genuinley surprised you feel this is a rare unusual hardly ever happens thing. I've sat through so many meetings about just this issue. The crisis in sen is huge and the safety valve agreement in some LA areas has massively increased complex needs in the classroom. It's a mess.

I'm a huge believer in state education. It's where I work and where one of my children thrived (other is at a special school paid for by the LA)

In my area, children are excluded if their behaviour is very disruptive. 2 of my neighbours have children who attend special schools which are far away (I see the mini bus come and collect them). My own children attend a 3 form entry sch and they have good SEN provision. My friend's child attended a terrible school, but she moved her to a different state primary nearby and this is much better.

There are some schools struggling, but most areas have decent provision. And in our area, there are more school places and larger catchments due to a declining birthrate... meaning it is easier to get your child into a school of your choice.

@mugboat I think you are very lucky to not live in a safety valve area and it's nice to hear parts of the country don't have many issues.

What are Bristol state schools like? Good grammars? Most who pay privately are concerned about behaviour and aspirations of other children (obviously their own are immaculately behaved). It’s personal choice. Where we are based there is what I hear clearly as a Kent accent, which I think is a bit limiting, irrespective of grades. Often those paying for private secondary have the expectation of a Russell Group university place, that’s not to say you couldn’t get one anyway, more that they are looking at leavers data and noting a high proportion are offered. Gimble gamble! How bright is the child you are sending? Would they make good progress at any school?

Sorry have RTFT and see Bristol state schools don’t appear to be well regarded by the locals who are commenting. I’d pull leavers destinations and grades from each school and take it from there. If OP isn’t bothered about grades I would go state and see if you feel their needs are adequately met.

We didn’t choose prep school to ensure grades. It’s more about experience for them and for us. I’m a paying customer, so the level of customer service from the school is very good.

The facilities are excellent. Lots of different opportunities for dance/drama/art/languages from age 5, as well as fantastic sports facilities. My 8 year old is progressing really well with French, plays hockey and lacrosse, as well as football and has been learning the violin for the past couple of years. Opportunities he wouldn’t have had at the local Outstanding infants school where he attended Reception.

Don’t mind if my DC decide not to go to uni in future. Hopefully they’ll be happy and find a path they enjoy through life.

It’s a value judgement though. The cost of our fees doesn’t impact our ability to do what we want elsewhere…

One of my friend’s really struggles to afford school fees (e.g. her oven broke, they couldn’t afford another one for a while!!). In her shoes, I think she would have been better off sending her DC to the local school, tutoring and spending money on other enriching experiences. I wouldn’t put private education above a certain standard of living. It’s nice, not necessary.