AIBU to think Private School isn’t worth the expense?

[Macaronsandcupcakes]

In my area (Bristol) all the private schools I’ve spoken to have admitted they will eventually pass on the 20% VAT (I’m not objecting the govt policy). This means the cheapest school will be charging £7k+ per term. For one child from yr 7 to complete their GCSE’s it’ll be £110k.

I completely understand the schools get better grades, but other than grades why is it worth it? Has your child significantly benefited?

Articles I’ve recently read suggest that the anti private discussions are gaining momentum, both from universities & employees.

My partner is keen to send our children. But I need convincing.

This is good advice. This ends up being a really individual decision based on the schools available to you (catchment etc) and how much of a stretch the fees are.

I made the decision to put mine in private primary based on the fact that the only decent schools were faith based admissions and I did not qualify and was not prepared to lie/attend church etc to qualify. The other school available to us had a very high proportion of kids whose mother tongue was not English. Actually did a great job as a school but I could see that they invested a huge amount of energy into that aspect of teaching which was not relevant for us. I was also worried about 1 of my kids who easily got overwhelmed in large groups so I wanted smaller class size for him. We were fortunate to be able to afford it too.

I don't have an undying love for indy schools but they did a decent job and my previously overwhelmed boy is now confident and self assured. How much of that is school vs natural evolution, I will never know.

My DC is now switching to state because he doesn't love the private and makes a lot less of the opportunities it offers so we've jointly made the decision to go to another school and at this age (6th form) we have different and equally good state options open to us.

Which schools are you considering? We looked at most of them and chose private because of the sport. Private schools in Bristol vary a lot.

Perhaps another perspective...
Ask yourself what it is you want from an independent school.
I have a quirky, arty son, who when younger loved sparkles and not traditionally masculine things.... he loved dance and art and knitting.... in other words he would have been eaten alive in the local state school (former mining community with lots of rugby)... also in the part of Wales we live in the local non Welsh medium schools weren't getting the level of government support as the Welsh medium.... and as there was no Welsh speaker at home, I felt it put him at a disadvantage.... I know some people say it doesn't but as someone who was schooled in a language other than the home language, my experience says it does...
Anyway, to the question at hand.
I sent him to one of the local independents.... one where the parents are quite involved but was non selective and actually has a very strong SEN programme despite being mainstream... in that environment his quirks and interests were of little consequence and he was not the bully magnet that he would have been.... he's been able to develop without that.... of course there's some bullying in the school but not the levels there might have been (anyone who claims no bullying in any school is deluded imo)
He's now doing his GCSEs, and is a compassionate young lad with good friends.... he's independent but also cognisant of money not growing on trees and has friends from all sorts of backgrounds.... he still loves dance and crafts etc but not so much of the sparkles.
So for me it has been worth it. He did manage to get a partial bursary which has helped but it's still the better part of £1k a month and means there's only just money for basics... I'm on a teacher salary.... I have some debt but not loads, and looking forward to him going to college so I can pay that off.

OP, as a parent with experience if 4 different independent schools (albeit London), I can tell you that talking about 'private school' is a total misnomer. Which private school? They are all totally different!

Some private schools are well run and worth the money - others are not. You need to start thinking about individual schools, rather than the sector.

Eg. School A (private): what are the GCSE and A-level results; what is the range of subjects in offer; what are the leavers' destinations; what is the physical environment like (would you like to be there every day?); what are the clubs etc and just generally what is the 'vibe' when you walk around? Do you feel teachers would be responsive to any issues you may raise? How do the pupils seem - these will be your child's peer group. What is the SEN provision? How personalised is the school - eg. are they just interested in results? Is it a 'one size fits all' approach, or is the ethos about more than that? What is the uni support and advice like - does the school have them doing extra or super curricular in the sixth form to boost their UCAS applications? What is the USP of the school? What is the travel time / mode to and from the school (very important)!

And, most importantly - will you child actually get in to a particular independent school? Some are much more competitive entry than others - eg. In London, some schools have 15 applicants per place, others more like 3 per place. Results obviously reflect the intake.

Every private school will differ in the above respects and no school is perfect. There are good and not so good teachers in all schools. If there is not much difference in GCSE results, I'd go for your state option. However, if an independent school's results are in a different league - and your child manages to get in via their 11 plus exams - then it's probably worth it yes, because the norm in such a school will be for pupils to get 7s/8s/9s rather than more mixed grade profiles and this creates the expectations and peer group your child will be 'carried' through school by (if that makes sense).

But you seem to be assuming that's the only reason why people choose it. I don't give a crap about grades or careers so long as my kids mental health is not crushed as it was in their state school.

You are both reasonable and unreasonable. Reasonable in that you are perfectly entitled to decide it's not worth it to you. Unreasonable to think yoir opinion leads to some kind of universal rule.

The vast majority of people buy supermarket bread which is made by a cost-efficient bulk process and is an affordable price. Some people with sufficient income prefer to always buy artisan bread from a craft baker who bakes in small batches to make bread which costs more than twice the price and is delicious.

If we decided as part of socialist principles that everyone would get a dole of bread paid for by taxes, the bread doled out would be the cheaper supermarket style. For most people their living expenses wouldn't change as the tax taken to pay for a universal bread dole would be offset by not having to buy bread. Most people would be satisfied.

Some people would still go to the artisan baker and buy the expensive bread, despite having full access to the state dole of bread and desite the fact thay are already paying for the state bread in their taxes. That's their choice. Having access to food is a human right but some people prioritise the nicest quality of food if they have the income to do so.

It would not be reasonable for the wealthy people who like nicer bread to campaign for taxes to be raised even higher so that the state dole of bread can be artisnal small-batch delicious bread. The general population is satisfied with the quality of ordinary bread and they consider that they have better things to do with their disposable income rather than buying posh bread when perfectly decent bread is free. For them the price of the posh bread is "not worth it". For the people who choose to buy the posh bread it is "worth it".

There is no objective rational measure of whether something is "worth it" or not. If someone is willing to pay the cost of something that another person is willing to sell then it's "worth it" to that buyer. If someone could afford it but decides not to then it's "not worth it" to that person. To people who couldn't afford it, it's irrelevant whether or not it's "worth it". Any grumbling will only come from people on the cusp between the categories who technically might be able to afford it if they reduced spending in other areas but they don't want to do that.

But bread analogies aside, whether going private is "worth it" to you will depend on your catchment state school. If you currently live in a 3 bed semi in the catchment area for Bedminster Down School then the cost of moving to a similar size home within the catchment of Redland Green School would be more than £300,000 so with a relatively easy bus service into town, sending children to BGS would be significantly cheaper and probably worth it. If you are already living in the catchment for Redland Green School then it might not be worth it.

Go to the schools open days. Only you can decide as only you know your family's needs, priorities and resources well enough to judge.

A good education and the confidence that comes with it gives you choices. It is all dependent on the exact school and individual but opportunities can be available via contacts to those who are willing and want it.

Life takes us in all directions and many choose not to go down a path for one reason or another. It’s not our place to judge for that. The comments of ‘I went state and did better than her even though she went private’ are meaningless. The definition of better varies from person to person.

I know an individual who went to one of the best schools in the country followed by Cambridge, had a fantastic start to their career and then stopped to be a SAHM. She didn’t work for the next 20 years and counting. She is happy though and loves the life she has - who is anyone else to judge her education as ‘wasted’. If she were to go back into the workforce, she is likeable with a number of transferable skills and could earn well should she need to.

Ultimately the education anyone has received will stay with them forever and they can use it for other things in the future. We shouldn’t be belittling and looking down on people who made different choices.

Always reminds me of this, so true!

You can take a horse to water- but a pencil must be lead 🤣 (Laurel & Hardy)

FWIW our 4 children were all privately educated from 4-18 and we don't regret a penny of it.

The children of friends we have who value education, encouraged their DC's to do lots of sports, had a stable home life and went to state school have done just as well.

I agree with this.

I was super super shy growing up and didn't pass the 11 plus. I was slightly above average academically and I didn't get much help at home as Dad was super busy and Mum wasn't academic.

Private school helped me flourish with small class sizes and loads of opportunities to do drama and public speaking.

I'm still shy but went to a top uni and have a great professional career.

I was private, at the time I was so lonely. A bit of bullying and I never had things everyone else had and it was along way form home so I was trapped.
However now going through secondary with my kids I can see that I was better educated and got better results which has probably meant that I earned more.
But psychologically it didn't help me at all. My children have gone to local secondary and have freedom and friends locally, but I am making it very clear that I expect them to work hard for those privileges, I do think parents are is exhausted by primary they're happy to let secondary schools do all the work however high parental expectation interest and commitment is so important.
Just my view on my schools though, not in your area.

We both went to grammar schools. Class disruption was minimal; due to a strict regime of punishments and the cane for boys, as the last resort. We don’t remember any children, who these days might be diagnosed with SEN. We hadn’t even heard of dyslexia, ADHD, etc until later in our teens.

We looked at the league tables, and chose to move out of London to a town with three good comprehensives in leafy suburbs. DC got all A*s and As at GCSE, and AAB at A level - enough to get into Russell group unis. Our friends children in private schools didn’t do any better.

I don’t think for academically able children, who are already maximising their potential, it makes much difference. However, if a DC had needed small classes, etc due to mild SEN or was being bullied in a state school, then we would have sent them to a private school.

There was also a drugs problem we didn’t have at my school.

Ah yes, drugs at private schools. Did you know the writer of Breaking Bad got the idea for the series having worked in various UK private schools?

Absolutely not worth the money - but parents do it to try to buy a bit of privilege for their kids, and make 'connections'.
Luckily, back in the real world, universities, employers etc. have realised that the strongest candidates are the ones who've actually has to work for opportunities, not been handed to them on a plate, and that hiring people with the 'right' accent who all look and sound the same isn't good for anyone.

More and more graduate schemes are giving preference to students who went to state schools over private, or are from lower socio-economic backgrounds but still got good exam grades and degrees. Some are even excluding privately educated altogether - safe in the knowledge that those kids will be fine because they'll be using mummy and daddy's firms or connections to get ahead.

Thank you all for your help & comments. I understand that it is school specific & recognise that there are good / poor examples of each school type. I also know we are incredibly lucky to have a choice.

My children have different needs, one is thriving in the state primary sector & the other has needed some extra help. I’m uncomfortable sending them to different sectors, whilst one may not need the extra academic support they would inevitably enjoy the extra curricular. Sending them both to private is achievable but will be a financial stretch & may involve them not being able to take part in the more expensive school trips abroad etc. It feels like it will definitely be ‘worth it’ for one, but perhaps less perceptible for the other?

Christ, don't treat one differently that the other for whatever reason! I have quite friends who parents did this - the real reason was cost - but came up with other justifications and it's really affecting sibling relationships!
sibs separated, one where the boy was sent away but the girls weren't, one 'real' child sent to private but the stepchild sent to local comp even though they were a family since the kids were toddlers, and one really interesting one where the very wealthy parent fancied a social experiment of how the 2 brothers would turn out if one was sent private and given everything and the other sent to state and had to fund his own uni fees etc.!

the brother who was handed everything - huge MH problems, has a posh career that he hates, the brother who wasn't given anything other than a roof over his head - started his own business from the ground up with no money, very successful and happy with his lot. They just about have a relationship with each other, neither talks to the parents.

@Macaronsandcupcakes ,

I don’t think treating them differently, according to their individual needs, is that bad, as long as if they start to do less well in the state sector, you can move them.

It is only bad if everyone thinks of one child as lucky and the other as unlucky.

@Macaronsandcupcakes ,
I sent my sons to state schools until my eldest was in year 8. We live in a leafy, affluent area of Surrey. Our local secondary has people fighting for places. My elder son went there in year 7, he had a terrible time because he wanted to learn. We took him out and sent him to our local independent school which was not in the least bit privileged but did have discipline and a competitive ethos. Meanwhile we’d been in discussion with our younger son’s state primary because we thought he had dyslexia, they told us that their expert special needs teacher has assessed him and he definitely did not have dyslexia but that he just had a very low IQ. Our elder son thrived in his new school and is now a doctor. We sent our younger son to the same private secondary as his brother when the time came and it was his teachers who approached us and suggested we get him tested for dyslexia… It turns out he has an IQ in the top 1% but extremely severe dyslexia, he was well supported at school, gained outstanding exam results and now has a successful career in the film industry.
Having experienced both state and private my experience is that state schools teach to hit their targets not to each child’s potential, special needs provision in the state sector is scarce and that impacts those who don’t have special needs because those who need help but don’t get it are more likely to be disruptive. Finally state schools have to jump through hoops in order to discipline students, if a child is continually disruptive or causing problems to other students at an independent school they can simply be asked to leave and I saw this happen.

Whether sending your children to different schools is OK or not is very context dependent. I have a colleague who has one child at a specialist boarding school on a scholarship and 2 at our local, very good, secondary. That doesn't seem to be causing any issues. All the kids are doing well and are happy, and there's a very positive reason why one actually needed a different educational setting. They're a very close and happy famiky as far as I can tell.
However, I also know someone who is the only one of several siblings who didn't go to private school as his parents didn't think him bright enough to be worth the money - they were quite open about that apparently. He also feels that he missed out in other ways as the family were financially stretched so he didn't even get to pursue his hobbies, go on school trips etc as the focus was on paying the school fees. Despite the fact he has been just as successful professionally as his siblings he has massive self esteem issues and a very strained relationship with his whole family.
Two extremes maybe, but they do illustrate that it's not a black and white issue.

friends brother was the one send to boarding while the girls went to day schools… they have almost no relationship with him. He’s closer to the boys he went to school with. He’s more like a distant cousin who you saw a bit as a kid in special occasions. He’s got MH issues, his sisters think he’s lonely, but he doesn’t want to make an effort to spend time with him.

goodluckbinbin · Today 11:58
the brother who was handed everything - huge MH problems, has a posh career that he hates

If someone who went to state school had MH problems, what would you blame that on?

It’s all relative to your local options.

Where we used to live, there was no chance I would have let my child attend the state schools. The outcomes were poor and the behavior problems were well documented. We moved and my child now has access to an amazing tuition free education.

if the quality of that education declines, we will explore other options, including private schools.

I don't suppose this will be of much help with your decision @Macaronsandcupcakes as it's not really relevant for your situation OP (as I guess you'll be paying the fees yourself).

But re one child going state and the sibling going private. My brother is friends with someone he met at their (private school). His friend comes from a single parent family on benefits - he had a grant assisted place.

The sibling went to the local state school and there's been no resentment. The siblings have a good relationship as adults.

But I realise that's not exactly the same as when the parents pay for one child and not the other - although I do think whether or not there's sibling resentment can be very dependent on individual circumstances - each individual child and their specific needs, what the local state schools are like (and whether the state school sufficiently caters for the non private school sibling's needs, etc).