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Original poster

Stopping the boats.

375 replies

Scenicgirl · 30/09/2024 22:05

Honest question.
When Rishi Sunak announced the promise to tackle Channel migrant crossings as one of his five key pledges at the beginning of 2023, and subsequently failed and Keir Starmer appearing not to be concerned about the numbers arriving daily, when other EU countries have taken a much sterner stance sending a clear message, why can't we stop/pause the boats?

OP posts:
DinosaurMunch · 01/10/2024 14:36

EasternStandard · 01/10/2024 11:02

Your last para doesn’t make much sense but since you hold the west accountable how far would you go with it?

How many would you welcome, is it as many who would like to come?

And would you give up some personal comfort to do so, your house or a swap even

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Did you read my posts? I didn't mention "welcoming" anyone. I haven't even mentioned immigration targets or how immigrants should be dealt with. Obviously there are far more wanting to come than there is capacity in this country. The solution is neither to open the borders nor to "stop the boats" by inhumane methods. We need an overhaul of foreign policy

Snugglemonkey · 01/10/2024 14:37

Silvertulips · 30/09/2024 22:37

The only way to stop people risking their lives in the channel is by providing a safe route to asylum. But nobody wants to talk about that

People do talk about that. The point being France is a safe country and all the other countries they’ve been through.

Id stop the freebies - make the process shorter and allow people to work so they aren’t claiming benefits and hanging round towns - give them a purpose.

Give them proper guidelines in applying in the right way.

There’s a criminal underclass to the whole process, which is wrong.

What is the right way?

EasternStandard · 01/10/2024 14:42

horrorcicada · 01/10/2024 12:16

I work in the immigration field, there are plenty of “why come to the UK and not somewhere else” questions here so I’ll try to add some context that might be helpful.

1: Most people do go somewhere else, only a small number of people try to get to the UK and an even smaller number manage that. There are serious issues with sex and organ trafficking on the coast, in short, nobody is doing this unless they are completely desperate. Despite what you read about the boats, the number of people arriving in Britain on boats is tiny in the context of net migration.

2: Most people do go to neighbouring countries but these places often have limited capacity to offer aid or opportunities to migrants.

3: The people who come to the UK typically have family, or a family member here. The UK has a long history of colonialism and colonial ties that still exist today, so many people will already be culturally familiar with the UK and likely speak English.

A note to add on freebies. Asylum seekers receive substantially more in other countries and very little in the UK (around £49pp pw). It seems ridiculous to me that there is a pervasive narrative around benefits when the amount received is shockingly small. Another note to add. Around 40% of forcibly displaced people are children.

The boats will never stop without drastic policy and geopolitical change. Ultimately, when we say “stop the boats” we need to establish whether we mean legal, or illegal migration. Safe migration paths for asylum seekers would resolve the latter. Immigration from asylum seekers will not stop without an eradication of the geopolitical and environmental issues that forcibly displace people. Any laws or policies ‘banning’ or ‘punishing’ immigration (it is not illegal to claim asylum) would violate several human rights conventions.

Edited

As you work in the immigration field I can see you have more than a passing interest in maintaining the sector but I’d like to ask

Is there a point at which people crossing the channel, or dying trying to do so, would cause you some discomfort?

Maybe due to your job there is no limit but for the public I’m not sure if we got to thousands arriving daily it would be suppressed successfully

Whothefuckdoesthat · 01/10/2024 14:51

swimsong · 01/10/2024 13:58

Congratulations on the daftest suggestion on the thread. A thread that started so well before MAGA-lite arrived.

Obviously it would've been better if Johnson, the lazy fecker, had bothered to renegotiate the Dublin Agreement.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dublin_Regulation?wprov=sfla1

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It wouldn’t have been better. It wouldn’t have made the slightest difference.

poetryandwine · 01/10/2024 14:51

EasternStandard · 01/10/2024 14:42

As you work in the immigration field I can see you have more than a passing interest in maintaining the sector but I’d like to ask

Is there a point at which people crossing the channel, or dying trying to do so, would cause you some discomfort?

Maybe due to your job there is no limit but for the public I’m not sure if we got to thousands arriving daily it would be suppressed successfully

Show quote history

But supposing the extreme case of any situation is not helpful. We have no reason to think that people who work with immigrants have an interest in perpetuating the situation - they can easily work in adjacent sectors.

We also have no reason to believe that this situation would come to pass. It is like worrying about what would happen if every woman on UC decided to have 12 children.

EasternStandard · 01/10/2024 14:52

poetryandwine · 01/10/2024 14:51

But supposing the extreme case of any situation is not helpful. We have no reason to think that people who work with immigrants have an interest in perpetuating the situation - they can easily work in adjacent sectors.

We also have no reason to believe that this situation would come to pass. It is like worrying about what would happen if every woman on UC decided to have 12 children.

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Have you noticed climate pressures at all and thinking on people movement?

Justice4Friend · 01/10/2024 14:54

Scenicgirl · 01/10/2024 07:56

You don't want them housed them in London but place them in a poor town to make the area even less desirable for the people already living there trying to improve the area.
You do realise that a lot of young people can only afford to buy a house in poorer locations so I don't understand why that should be a solution?

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Expensive cities should not be propping up people that can't contribute that have come here illegally, the legal people of London deserve the revenue to be spent on them and the infrastructure l.
The city has to look good for the economy.

A dead town can house illegal people, it's not going to make a difference to the town's trajectory.
They should be given bread and bed only as another European country wants to do it may eh already doing.

poetryandwine · 01/10/2024 14:55

EasternStandard · 01/10/2024 14:52

Have you noticed climate pressures at all and thinking on people movement?

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Of course. That is quite a segue

EasternStandard · 01/10/2024 14:57

poetryandwine · 01/10/2024 14:55

Of course. That is quite a segue

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Blimey you must be pretty good at dividing things if you think higher numbers won’t come from increased climate pressures

And resulting volatility

Justice4Friend · 01/10/2024 14:57

Comedycook · 01/10/2024 07:34

The numbers arriving in boats is nothing compared to the numbers of people that the Tory government allowed in via official immigration routes...about 750k net migration a year. Imo I think they focused on the boats so the general public would ignore the huge amounts of legal migration that they allowed

People on benefits without physical or mental issues should be made to do the lower level jobs so we don't need to import people that will.

High skilled people - well if this country can't produce them we have to import them.

poetryandwine · 01/10/2024 14:58

EasternStandard · 01/10/2024 14:52

Have you noticed climate pressures at all and thinking on people movement?

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On closer thought I am not sure I have interpreted your post correctly, so could you please say a bit about what you nean?

StormingNorman · 01/10/2024 15:00

Because we live on an island and we can’t build a wall around ourselves to stop boats landing.

Because people are so desperate for a better life they’ll risk their life and their children’s lives to achieve it. Whatever we do, they’ll find a way.

Gloriana1 · 01/10/2024 15:01

poetryandwine · 01/10/2024 14:58

On closer thought I am not sure I have interpreted your post correctly, so could you please say a bit about what you nean?

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I guess it's just a rumination on the movement of people from South to North as things get hotter.

Original poster
Scenicgirl · 01/10/2024 15:02

Justice4Friend · 01/10/2024 14:54

Expensive cities should not be propping up people that can't contribute that have come here illegally, the legal people of London deserve the revenue to be spent on them and the infrastructure l.
The city has to look good for the economy.

A dead town can house illegal people, it's not going to make a difference to the town's trajectory.
They should be given bread and bed only as another European country wants to do it may eh already doing.

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I agree it's not a good look for London that relies on tourism. But equally the people who live in poorer areas should not bear the brunt of housing illegal immigrants either. This would further bring down the area as it would simply serve to make it less desirable, harder to get a doctors appointment, overcrowded schools etc, the end result would be people moving out and the towns being taken over by the newcomers and turned into a no go slum area.

OP posts:
Gloriana1 · 01/10/2024 15:02

But, doors need to be closed.

A big ol' welcome helps no-one.

EasternStandard · 01/10/2024 15:03

I’m not sure if people have seen the Morocco / Spain events where people pretty much try to cross

They seem to be managed by the police but I’m wondering how international law does not apply and what countries will do as this ramps up

And I know people only want to see this through one lens, the 1951 established narrative. But really what do people think will happen as numbers grow?

It seems head in the sand to me at this point

Original poster
Scenicgirl · 01/10/2024 15:04

Justice4Friend · 01/10/2024 14:57

People on benefits without physical or mental issues should be made to do the lower level jobs so we don't need to import people that will.

High skilled people - well if this country can't produce them we have to import them.

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I thought we already did.

OP posts:
Gloriana1 · 01/10/2024 15:04

Scenicgirl · 01/10/2024 15:02

I agree it's not a good look for London that relies on tourism. But equally the people who live in poorer areas should not bear the brunt of housing illegal immigrants either. This would further bring down the area as it would simply serve to make it less desirable, harder to get a doctors appointment, overcrowded schools etc, the end result would be people moving out and the towns being taken over by the newcomers and turned into a no go slum area.

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Yah, send them up North.

candlewhickgreen · 01/10/2024 15:05

Justice4Friend · 01/10/2024 14:54

Expensive cities should not be propping up people that can't contribute that have come here illegally, the legal people of London deserve the revenue to be spent on them and the infrastructure l.
The city has to look good for the economy.

A dead town can house illegal people, it's not going to make a difference to the town's trajectory.
They should be given bread and bed only as another European country wants to do it may eh already doing.

Show quote history

It's not illegal to come over on the boats to claim asylum. They're not illegal. Those that overstay their visas are illegal immigrants.

You can't just give people bread, they'd get scurvy and that's obviously inhumane. Also deprived cities and towns often don't have the infrastructure to support asylum seekers and they aren't given enough support.

Gloriana1 · 01/10/2024 15:10

The Legal People of London.

Is very funny.

Whats abouts the Legal People of the Norths?

We have no breads to share...

RamblingAround · 01/10/2024 15:12

AlaskaThunderfuckHiiiiiiiii · 01/10/2024 12:14

We have an issue at the moment in my area where government is paying care companies extra money to take on more immigrants, they are giving all the hours to them and the workers that were already working in care and have been for years are having their hours cut and therefore leaving, how is this helping the care worker shortage? It should be complementing existing staff not having them replace them completely. As others have also pointed out they will eventually bring their family, some of which have more than one husband and they have more than one wife where do we draw the line?

Edited

I don’t think uk residents should lose out on jobs.

Polygamy would not be recognised here legally. Which culture’s immigrants usually encourage a woman having more than one husband? I am not familiar with this.

Gloriana1 · 01/10/2024 15:14

RamblingAround · 01/10/2024 15:12

I don’t think uk residents should lose out on jobs.

Polygamy would not be recognised here legally. Which culture’s immigrants usually encourage a woman having more than one husband? I am not familiar with this.

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More than one husband?

Where do we draw the line?

Right there friend.

No woman needs more than one husband.

RamblingAround · 01/10/2024 15:15

user1471516498 · 01/10/2024 13:31

The "first safe country" rhetoric is very handy for the UK, in that it means that no asylum seekers should come to the UK at all. Probably why it is not in fact policy.

I know. It amuses me when racists spout this. I mean, I am no expert of geography but I know the UK is surrounded by water, so is unlikely to be the first safe country for most people.

Gloriana1 · 01/10/2024 15:20

RamblingAround · 01/10/2024 15:15

I know. It amuses me when racists spout this. I mean, I am no expert of geography but I know the UK is surrounded by water, so is unlikely to be the first safe country for most people.

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How is that racist though?

To state an absolute fact?

The UK would never be the 'first safe country'.

I'm not denying any asylum claims. But the UK is absolutely not the first safe country unless you were seeking asylum from the RoI or maybe Norway.

RamblingAround · 01/10/2024 15:20

Gloriana1 · 01/10/2024 15:14

More than one husband?

Where do we draw the line?

Right there friend.

No woman needs more than one husband.

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I don’t know of any cultures where women have more than one husband. That’s what I was asking.