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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Stopping the boats.

375 replies

Scenicgirl · 30/09/2024 22:05

Honest question.
When Rishi Sunak announced the promise to tackle Channel migrant crossings as one of his five key pledges at the beginning of 2023, and subsequently failed and Keir Starmer appearing not to be concerned about the numbers arriving daily, when other EU countries have taken a much sterner stance sending a clear message, why can't we stop/pause the boats?

OP posts:
HelenHen · 01/10/2024 11:03

SallyWD · 01/10/2024 09:39

People seem to have such an issue with the fact that more men come over on small boats. Does anyone not understand why men come over first? It's a treacherous journey, they don't don't even know if they'll be granted asylum so why would they drag women and children over until they're established? Often the families are waiting at a camp elsewhere until they're allowed to come. All this information is available online.

Exactly this. Families pool money to send their fittest and strongest, so that their women and children aren't the dead ones in the headlines, as so many of you acknowledged they're more likely to die.

OhmygodDont · 01/10/2024 11:06

RamblingAround · 01/10/2024 11:01

There is not enough housing. Blame the government not the asylum seekers. Right to buy etc has ruined our social housing stock. Well before asylum seekers everted the equation.

And this comment:
Pay in before you take out since you choose to come and live here and where not forced by birth 😉
I would be interested in how much you earn and if you are a net contributor. I am guessing not. Why is it ok for you to take from a system you haven’t paid in enough for? Just because you happened to be born here. On previous threads you said that your parents had a council house and lived off unemployment benefit. Why was it okay for them not to work to provide for themselves?

I don’t think I’ve ever said it’s ok for them. It’s not a life style I agree with either. They used to work previously.

They didn’t choice to live here either though did they. They are here because they were born here. People who come here make the choice to come here so they should pay in before they take out.

Though I’m not bored enough to go searching your posting history 🥱

Shakeoffyourchains · 01/10/2024 11:11

Scenicgirl · 01/10/2024 10:23

I'm in full agreement re your remark about the traffickers, it is definitely those who need digging out and dealing with, but as for my reference to "the boats" that is what we are seeing arriving to our shores and since I'm not on 1st name terms with the occupants, it is merely a turn of phrase and not meant to cause offence.

as for my reference to "the boats" that is what we are seeing arriving to our shores

Because that is what the media are showing you. There are far more illegal migrants from overstaying visas than from boat crossings but they don't show that. Maybe it's time to start asking why such a narrative is being pushed and whose interests does it serve.

Thinking on this I'd quite like to see the anti-immigration brigade lead by example and start to campaign for the ending of emigration from Britain by British citizens. I think they'd have a much stronger position if they practiced what they preached.

RamblingAround · 01/10/2024 11:13

OhmygodDont · 01/10/2024 11:06

I don’t think I’ve ever said it’s ok for them. It’s not a life style I agree with either. They used to work previously.

They didn’t choice to live here either though did they. They are here because they were born here. People who come here make the choice to come here so they should pay in before they take out.

Though I’m not bored enough to go searching your posting history 🥱

Edited

How about those being tortured in prison in a dictatorship who come here? Is that a ‘choice’? Really?

You haven’t answered my questions. If you don’t, I can guess the answers of course.

How many asylum seekers have you chatted to about their experiences?

Are you a highly paid net contributor?

SallyWD · 01/10/2024 11:15

People always complain that asylum seekers are housed before the British homeless. What people fail to understand is all the efforts that go into trying to house the homeless here. I used to work for the housing department of our council. Many homeless people were given homes. Unfortunately, many of these people have complex mental health and drug addiction issues. They were often incapable of looking after the homes, and they became uninhabitable. We also had people who repeatedly couldn't find their homes. A lot of resources go into homeless shelters too, but again sometimes it's almost impossible to try and drag people there, even on freezing cold nights. Treatment for drug addiction was also offered to people but many don't engage.
It's so easy to say that nothing is done to help our homeless, whilst asylum seekers are living in luxury. It's simply not true. It's yet another case of the media spinning stories to suit their agenda.

OhmygodDont · 01/10/2024 11:19

RamblingAround · 01/10/2024 11:13

How about those being tortured in prison in a dictatorship who come here? Is that a ‘choice’? Really?

You haven’t answered my questions. If you don’t, I can guess the answers of course.

How many asylum seekers have you chatted to about their experiences?

Are you a highly paid net contributor?

You can assume all you wish. My earnings are structured to how I want them between multiple income streams within a duel
income home.

Im still not choosing to move to another country and demand to be housed, fed, get medical treatment and cash all for free. Which is what these people are requesting or demanding which ever way you wish to word it.

Im sorry which countries force people fleeing to go to England or Finland or America… oh wait none.

The person moving country picks which one they would like to live in.

SallyWD · 01/10/2024 11:23

OhmygodDont · 01/10/2024 11:19

You can assume all you wish. My earnings are structured to how I want them between multiple income streams within a duel
income home.

Im still not choosing to move to another country and demand to be housed, fed, get medical treatment and cash all for free. Which is what these people are requesting or demanding which ever way you wish to word it.

Im sorry which countries force people fleeing to go to England or Finland or America… oh wait none.

The person moving country picks which one they would like to live in.

They're not demanding it. It was a conservative policy to start housing asylum seekers in hotels. The processing asylum claims used to be much quicker. All they're "demanding" is to have their asylum application processed. What we decide to do once they're here, is a decision made by the government.

GinnyPiggie · 01/10/2024 11:24

People have been crossing the channel for literally thousands of years. We can't possibly 'stop the boats' - we are an island with a really small channel around us. We just need to process asylum claims.

What do people really think we should be doing? We need to start being really clear about it, because pretty soon there will be millions of climate refugees crossing the water and we need to plan for that.

EasternStandard · 01/10/2024 11:25

SallyWD · 01/10/2024 11:23

They're not demanding it. It was a conservative policy to start housing asylum seekers in hotels. The processing asylum claims used to be much quicker. All they're "demanding" is to have their asylum application processed. What we decide to do once they're here, is a decision made by the government.

Another pre GE pledge already failed by Labour, given headlines on hotel use today

EasternStandard · 01/10/2024 11:25

GinnyPiggie · 01/10/2024 11:24

People have been crossing the channel for literally thousands of years. We can't possibly 'stop the boats' - we are an island with a really small channel around us. We just need to process asylum claims.

What do people really think we should be doing? We need to start being really clear about it, because pretty soon there will be millions of climate refugees crossing the water and we need to plan for that.

We need to start being really clear about it, because pretty soon there will be millions of climate refugees crossing the water and we need to plan for that.

Are people ready for millions?

SerendipityJane · 01/10/2024 11:39

EasternStandard · 01/10/2024 11:25

Another pre GE pledge already failed by Labour, given headlines on hotel use today

Just out of interest, when were you expecting it fulfilled ? Milliseconds after midnight on 5th July ?

Seconds ?

Minutes ?

Hours ?

Days ?

Just curious as to what you thought was "reasonable" ?

To be fair I was thinking myself maybe a couple of years at least.

RamblingAround · 01/10/2024 11:43

OhmygodDont · 01/10/2024 11:19

You can assume all you wish. My earnings are structured to how I want them between multiple income streams within a duel
income home.

Im still not choosing to move to another country and demand to be housed, fed, get medical treatment and cash all for free. Which is what these people are requesting or demanding which ever way you wish to word it.

Im sorry which countries force people fleeing to go to England or Finland or America… oh wait none.

The person moving country picks which one they would like to live in.

As I guessed.

Anyway, I can see what I am dealing with here so will leave it there. You have zero compassion or wish to be open-minded, and want to believe what the tabloids are telling you. Crack on and have a good day.

EasternStandard · 01/10/2024 11:43

SerendipityJane · 01/10/2024 11:39

Just out of interest, when were you expecting it fulfilled ? Milliseconds after midnight on 5th July ?

Seconds ?

Minutes ?

Hours ?

Days ?

Just curious as to what you thought was "reasonable" ?

To be fair I was thinking myself maybe a couple of years at least.

It was Starmer that made the pledge not me. Ask him.

His claim now defunct was they’d stop using hotels

I didn’t believe all their tripe about smash the gangs etc so no surprises here tg

Scenicgirl · 01/10/2024 11:44

GinnyPiggie · 01/10/2024 11:24

People have been crossing the channel for literally thousands of years. We can't possibly 'stop the boats' - we are an island with a really small channel around us. We just need to process asylum claims.

What do people really think we should be doing? We need to start being really clear about it, because pretty soon there will be millions of climate refugees crossing the water and we need to plan for that.

Short of building an extension on GB (hypothetical obviously) exactly how do we plan to accept the millions of people expected?
Because eventually we will run out of hotels, space to build new centres/housing etc so what then? Be told we have to open our homes?
Which is why we need to set limits on the numbers we accept and the government need to get off their backsides to find a better solution because this is going to be a major problem in the not too distant future. But unfortunately, we know the past 2 governments haven't had the backbone to take control.

OP posts:
SerendipityJane · 01/10/2024 11:48

EasternStandard · 01/10/2024 11:43

It was Starmer that made the pledge not me. Ask him.

His claim now defunct was they’d stop using hotels

I didn’t believe all their tripe about smash the gangs etc so no surprises here tg

You are the one who was unhappy that an "election pledge" had not yet been fulfilled.

I'm just trying to gauge what window of opportunity you were allowing.

As far as I am aware Starmer didn't say "instantly", so what were your expectations ? If they are always unrealistic then you may forever spend your life being disappointed.

EasternStandard · 01/10/2024 11:51

SerendipityJane · 01/10/2024 11:48

You are the one who was unhappy that an "election pledge" had not yet been fulfilled.

I'm just trying to gauge what window of opportunity you were allowing.

As far as I am aware Starmer didn't say "instantly", so what were your expectations ? If they are always unrealistic then you may forever spend your life being disappointed.

I wouldn’t say unhappiness is the right phrase, Labour clearly put forward unworkable policies and false lines pre GE, so it’s not a surprise to me.

However it won’t help them to say no more hotels and then back track

Starmer is already polling highest on the description Liar

GinnyPiggie · 01/10/2024 11:57

Scenicgirl · 01/10/2024 11:44

Short of building an extension on GB (hypothetical obviously) exactly how do we plan to accept the millions of people expected?
Because eventually we will run out of hotels, space to build new centres/housing etc so what then? Be told we have to open our homes?
Which is why we need to set limits on the numbers we accept and the government need to get off their backsides to find a better solution because this is going to be a major problem in the not too distant future. But unfortunately, we know the past 2 governments haven't had the backbone to take control.

I think this will be the biggest challenge for our children TBH - and the worst part of climate change. It will lead (probably) to defending our shores against millions of people who want to live here/live. It's going to be grim.

ItWasOnAStarryNight · 01/10/2024 11:59

"They shouldn't be placed in prime places like London.
They should be put up in poor towns until they have been given asylum or deported immediately if not."

You should be ashamed of yourself NIMBY. Imagine actually thinking that people in poorer towns don't matter as much as you. We've known it for a long time of course, but people don't usually admit it. Disgusting.

SerendipityJane · 01/10/2024 12:06

ItWasOnAStarryNight · 01/10/2024 11:59

"They shouldn't be placed in prime places like London.
They should be put up in poor towns until they have been given asylum or deported immediately if not."

You should be ashamed of yourself NIMBY. Imagine actually thinking that people in poorer towns don't matter as much as you. We've known it for a long time of course, but people don't usually admit it. Disgusting.

Rishi Sunak happily admitted it remember. On camera. - Tunbridge Wells was taking money from poorer Northern towns because - well because Tories detest the poor.

thepariscrimefiles · 01/10/2024 12:09

Scenicgirl · 30/09/2024 23:05

It was an honest question open for debate, not sarky comments but begs the question, having come so far and passing through Spain, Italy, France etc why do the the extra leg to reach GB in dangerous conditions?

There are many reasons why they would want to come to the UK, including speaking the language, family already living here, coming from a former British colony. Other European countries accept more asylum seekers and economic migrants than we do.

Also, unless they are able to fly to the UK to seek asylum which would be impossible as they wouldn't be able to get a visa, the UK will never be the first safe country that they reach. Given our colonial past and the legacy of slavery, it would be immoral for the UK to use the 'first safe country' rule to refuse to accept any asylum applications.

There need to be mechanisms for people to apply for asylum from their own countries, e.g. Afghan and Iranian women living in repressive theocratic regimes.

AlaskaThunderfuckHiiiiiiiii · 01/10/2024 12:14

We have an issue at the moment in my area where government is paying care companies extra money to take on more immigrants, they are giving all the hours to them and the workers that were already working in care and have been for years are having their hours cut and therefore leaving, how is this helping the care worker shortage? It should be complementing existing staff not having them replace them completely. As others have also pointed out they will eventually bring their family, some of which have more than one husband and they have more than one wife where do we draw the line?

horrorcicada · 01/10/2024 12:16

I work in the immigration field, there are plenty of “why come to the UK and not somewhere else” questions here so I’ll try to add some context that might be helpful.

1: Most people do go somewhere else, only a small number of people try to get to the UK and an even smaller number manage that. There are serious issues with sex and organ trafficking on the coast, in short, nobody is doing this unless they are completely desperate. Despite what you read about the boats, the number of people arriving in Britain on boats is tiny in the context of net migration.

2: Most people do go to neighbouring countries but these places often have limited capacity to offer aid or opportunities to migrants.

3: The people who come to the UK typically have family, or a family member here. The UK has a long history of colonialism and colonial ties that still exist today, so many people will already be culturally familiar with the UK and likely speak English.

A note to add on freebies. Asylum seekers receive substantially more in other countries and very little in the UK (around £49pp pw). It seems ridiculous to me that there is a pervasive narrative around benefits when the amount received is shockingly small. Another note to add. Around 40% of forcibly displaced people are children.

The boats will never stop without drastic policy and geopolitical change. Ultimately, when we say “stop the boats” we need to establish whether we mean legal, or illegal migration. Safe migration paths for asylum seekers would resolve the latter. Immigration from asylum seekers will not stop without an eradication of the geopolitical and environmental issues that forcibly displace people. Any laws or policies ‘banning’ or ‘punishing’ immigration (it is not illegal to claim asylum) would violate several human rights conventions.

inamarina · 01/10/2024 12:22

These people are happy to work. They are mostly healthy young men with plenty of drive and intelligence.

How do you know that? Some of them will be, some of them won’t.

I’ve been following the news in Germany where there has been a huge increase in asylum seekers since 2015 (2,670,447 registered between 2015 and 2023, source: bka.de).

Every week there are reports about attacks, mostly stabbings, often fatal. The perpetrators in the vast majority of cases I’ve read about recently were from immigrant background, often refugees.

Just a few days ago a Syrian man in Essen started two house fires, injuring 30 people including several children, drove a van into a couple of shops and roamed the streets with a machete.

Of course that doesn’t mean all male refugees are potential criminals.
But it’s just naive and disingenuous to pretend that there are no issues whatsoever and everyone is just here to work and pay taxes.

1apenny2apenny · 01/10/2024 12:28

And they all want to work. Doing what? From what I can gather they are unskilled so will be in minimum wage jobs. So let's say we have an amnesty? Thousands of unskilled young men earning nmw with no-where to live and now no-one cooking their meals and doing their laundry. Again young British families, ex servicemen etc come first.

We need to face facts we don't actually know much about these people - what skills they have, their language skills etc. Everyone assumes they can speak English, want to work etc. if so many have family over here why aren't the government asking them to house them?

Gloriana1 · 01/10/2024 12:28

horrorcicada · 01/10/2024 12:16

I work in the immigration field, there are plenty of “why come to the UK and not somewhere else” questions here so I’ll try to add some context that might be helpful.

1: Most people do go somewhere else, only a small number of people try to get to the UK and an even smaller number manage that. There are serious issues with sex and organ trafficking on the coast, in short, nobody is doing this unless they are completely desperate. Despite what you read about the boats, the number of people arriving in Britain on boats is tiny in the context of net migration.

2: Most people do go to neighbouring countries but these places often have limited capacity to offer aid or opportunities to migrants.

3: The people who come to the UK typically have family, or a family member here. The UK has a long history of colonialism and colonial ties that still exist today, so many people will already be culturally familiar with the UK and likely speak English.

A note to add on freebies. Asylum seekers receive substantially more in other countries and very little in the UK (around £49pp pw). It seems ridiculous to me that there is a pervasive narrative around benefits when the amount received is shockingly small. Another note to add. Around 40% of forcibly displaced people are children.

The boats will never stop without drastic policy and geopolitical change. Ultimately, when we say “stop the boats” we need to establish whether we mean legal, or illegal migration. Safe migration paths for asylum seekers would resolve the latter. Immigration from asylum seekers will not stop without an eradication of the geopolitical and environmental issues that forcibly displace people. Any laws or policies ‘banning’ or ‘punishing’ immigration (it is not illegal to claim asylum) would violate several human rights conventions.

Edited

Ok. You work in the field.

Why so many young men?

If life is so perilous for them, you'd think they'd get the women and children out.

You talk about 'safe migration paths' for asylum seekers.

Have you driven through Calais in the last 20 years??

I have.

There's a lot of blokes there.

They are surely 'safe' in France or Germany or Italy.

The men in Calais are in no immediate peril.