WWYD? I am making so many mistakes and can't think straight!

[cato40]

I'd really value some perspective from people that are not as emotionally involved as I feel like I am taking one wrong decision after the other and don't know what to do!
Background: neither me or exH are british born and have no family in the UK. We ived in the UK for all pir adult lives and just divorced after his years long affair with an ex girlfriend who lives in the US. We have 2 DD 11 and 7. He said he would leave the UK at some point and we agreed for me to move to my home country (Europe) with the girls so that my mum and brother can help me with the girls and I can build a new life here. Our old family home is on the market and with the money I could buy a place mortgage free here, he would pay maintainace and with my new job here me and the gilrs could have a good life here.
I have been back to my home city a month now and seriously struggling. The cost of living is high but salaries here are low, jobs are not flexible and transports unreliable. It means that I can't look after the girls as I used to when I was in the UK and I totally depend on my family for school runs and after school. I miss my independence and time with the girls. I cannot even afford a car here as they cost a fortune compared to the UK! I am way more tired (leaving the house at 7.00 am coming back at 7pm earning 50% of my last UK salary). Schools here have been a disappointment, I did not anticipate before moving, and the girls miss home and their friends too, which i expected but still makes me sad and guilty. Our quality of life is no better of what it was in the UK. I decided to move as I was scared at the idea of raising the kids alone in the UK since the dad was planning to move abroad too. He has always paid maintainace so far. The positive here is the support and connection with my family, although my elderly mum is exhausted as she has to manage the girls every day whilst I go to work. Paid childcare is too expensive.

Now: we have been away amonth and EXH is begging for us to go back to the UK promising he'll do more to be with them and help. I wonder if it is a narcissistic thing where he needs the kids to feed his ego? Us moving here was his idea and since his affair he has not been very involved with the kids. He paid anything the girls needed but his GF always first (going on hiliday with her and missing a year 6 assembly of our eldest daughter). He's happy to take the house off the market and for me to live there with the girls and support until I find a new job.
What would you do?
I am tempted to go back but feel I didn't give my country a proper chance for us to fully settle, and moving back to the UK would upset my family (although they are struggling too with us, not used to dealing with school runs, kids being kids etc.), they have supported me through the breakup and would not see well me moving back. I think the UK is better for the girls, schools and opportunities, we are in a super touristy region and in future they'll have to move away or work in hospitality.
Going back would also mean that the only support would be the unreliable ex H that now promises to stay in the UK to raise the girls.
Please help!

I'd cut my losses and go back. The house sale falling through is a serendipitous reason to rethink, on top of all the negatives there summarised well by a PP. Your ex may have his ego issues, but it's still within the realms of belief that he misses his DC. Also, they're aren't very young and you won't need a lot of help with them for too long. Feels like it'll be enough to readjust to the single parent family set-up without changing country and culture so, so go back now before it gets much harder. You tried it and it didn't work out. No need to string it out.

Can you try and step away from n what feels like an immediate binary choice between the previous house and your current rental? Try and reframe your thinking to something longer term and strategic?
Where in Europe (including UK) will be the best longer term place for a single woman with your career skills to work/live. AND where is going to be best for two girls/women to be growing up in terms of opportunities/rights/attitudes.
So the least patriarchal, the most forwarded thinking, economically expanding and stable country where you don't have a language barrier??
The solution might then be a 3rd option (UK but different town/Switzerland or Norway.... I've no idea)....

As an Italian in the UK I would move back. I love my home country, the weather, the food, my family and friends. But I think salaries are low, the education system miles behind the UK in so many aspects and generally society is a lot less open, tolerant, diverse and multicultural. all my friends (even in big cities) struggle to find affordable and good quality childcare. Teaching style is old fashioned, no education about bullying and diversity, SEN provision very very sparse.

There is no ofsted and summer clubs and holiday clubs are run by small orgs, completely understaffed with 2 19 year olds looking after 30 kids. I have seen plenty of those clubs in my summer holidays there and would never leave my children in those.

I also believe that ideally children shouldn’t live in a different country to their parent and it sounds like your mother can’t help much anyway.

If you move to Switzerland, you could potentially afford an au pair and the hours might be less grueling.

If visas and work permits allow I would think Switzerland is a good option. Schools are good but childcare provision only in big towns. Countryside still very conservative.

@cato40 my English SIL lives in your area just outside Milan and works in Como. She find it very difficult without family support, particularly when the kids were younger. Shorter school days, no after school clubs and 3 month summer holidays all make it harder. She ended up getting an English au pair to come and help them over the summer.
Also the system is very different - you'll know more but I think when you're 14 you have to specialise in either arts, sciences or languages. I feel like this may make it hard to move back later.

I think moving back sounds like the sensible thing to do. The UK for all it's faults is better set up for working single parents and doesn't rely on family support. If your mother is already finding it tiring, it will only get more intense as she gets older.

I would stay for a year.

Can you get a local job even if it is in hospitality that will pay the same or similar when you factor in the lack of travel.

You can spend more time with your girls and be around more for you mum

I think if it is touristy it must have some benefits. Such a beautiful place and lots of activities.

Do you think people can just move back and claim benefits even though they have never paid into the system? Well it doesn’t work like that! Your benefits are tied to how long you have worked and paid into thr system. And relying on benefits is pretty much the worst advice in this situation

I agree . A month can be seen as a blip .

A year does too much damage . The kids have lost their friendship groups and place in their old lives.

Go back now and work out the rest .
If my kids are happy I am happy.

You and your ex need to sit down now and out the girls needs first .

At this point I wouldn’t trust him but get yourself back in the family home Before he changed his mind and it’s got a buyer. In a year a lot can change .

Do the children even speak fluent Italian? I know children are adaptable but it sounds like they've had all their support network take away and are fed up.

What about daughters not happy and very limited prospects for them in future?

Just think what is best for your girls. Factor out the ex's wants and consider how you would manage without the support he is promising, as he seems very flakey. I think I would move back if I could make it work.

From experience of living in two EU countries I’d say it takes a minimum of 6 months to settle in and children take about 6 months to settle into a new school structure. I’m assuming your dc speak Italian? That’s a huge plus that’ll help them make friends.
Can you eventually afford a house big enough for a live in help? I’m thinking someone lives reduced rent or rent free in exchange for some childcare.
The alternative is to return to the UK quickly so it’s not too disruptive for the children, stay in your old home as long as possible , it’s easy to make it unattractive to buyers if you want to stall selling.

You've tried to make a better life for your girls. We don't know how things will pan out unless we try them. You've been through every stressful situation all at once, most do one thing at a time but unfortunately not your doing you've experienced an affair, break up, house move, Country move etc

I would normally say give something 6 -12 months but the things you are struggling with I can't see them improving. Your mother will get older, ok the girls will get older and not need school runs with her but your mother may need you to help her as she ages. Schools won't improve, job prospects won't improve unless you all move further afield meaning starting all over again or all working in the local area for minimum wage.

From what you've wrote the important things that are better are in the UK. Education opens many doors for your children. You can get a job with higher wages, this can enable you to pay for after-school things, whether it's an activity or paid child care.

If it were me, I'd speak with your ex find out what he will definitely be doing, I'm not sure I'm not in the UK but in Ireland we have rights to stay in the family home until the youngest child is 18. Can you (while he seems to be agreeing to things now) get some concrete plans in place ? Make an agreement about the UK house, who pays what, you can get a solicitor to get this documented, with regards to maintenance you can't depend on that as people can be flakey with this. Work out can you survive in the UK with your own salary and check out what benefits you are entitled to, I don't know UK system but in Ireland we have different benefits for single parents, earning under a certain amount and others, would be worthwhile checking these out.

I think it has perhaps all been to much at once.

It might have been better as a back up plan if you tried it alone in UK first & that wasn't working.

I am terrified at the idea of taking any more decisions as I've shown myself to have such poor judgement

Absolutely not, OP. Stop beating yourself up! You made a rational decision in the very difficult situation your XH put you and your daughters in. He left you with very limited options, and you did what seemed best at the time.

A month is too short a time to settle in, so I would be inclined to give it a bit longer. On the other hand, you are experiencing practical difficulties, eg long working hours and childcare, and giving it more time is unlikely to solve these.

I’m sorry I can’t offer better-informed advice.

But one thing I’m certain of: please don’t trust your XH, who is at best unreliable. Don’t put yourself in any situation that depends on him being reasonable or caring about your and DDs’ needs. You know he puts himself first, and he will not change.

Best of luck, OP xx

If I were you I would talk to your girls’ old school in the UK and see if they have a place to take them back.

Then if so, start looking for jobs in the UK and see if you can do initial interviews on video calls.

If you end up with a good job offer and school places then it’s a much easier decision to make. You can then look into arrangements for your mum to visit to help you in the UK on a temp basis.

I think I’d start applying for uk jobs. I’d not move back unemployed. But if you can find a job then make the move.

I agree with @Hairyesterdaygonetoday A month is no time to even begin to settle and I would be inclined to give it 6 months or, if that sounds daunting, the at the very least until the New Year. Yes, the Italian education system is different, as are the French, German, Spanish, Dutch, Irish, US ... you name it ... systems. Different ≠ "worse".

Your ex- sounds flaky and untrustworthy and I wouldn't base anything on what he says/promises.

I agree with posters saying head back to England. You can rethink Italy when they’re older and aren’t reliant on you but, for now, you need to put their education and your financial position first.

I spend a fair amount of time in Lombardia and the property prices are on a par with London. Your family are only a short plane ride away and so you can still pop back for holidays.

Focus on gaining more financial independence in the UK and build yourself a support network here. You’ll be better supported as a single parent in England and, by the sound of things, will have a better quality of life.

for me the key problem here is the education system. Even if you send them to a better school, the system is the same, similar old fashioned teaching methods and very short school days, long summer holidays and not a lot of good quality childcare. How will you manage the 3 months summer break?
my friend moved to Rome for two years and his work paid for the children’s private school. Even there the teaching was not amazing and you still have challenges of wrap around care.

I think write down all the problems individually on paper then put them in order

What is the biggest problem?

Or imagine all the problems are written on little slips of paper in a snow globe whirling around. One by one they slowly sort themselves out and settle but there is always one that is left floating about. This is the one to solve.

Don't you think that a 4 hour commute is killing the family vibe? No one will have much left to give after out the house 12 -13 hours a day.

If you can commute less then you will have fewer child care issues and your dm will be less tired and your girls will be happier- for example. I cannot speak for you.

There must be positives of living there that you don't get in the UK.

For the young women muy kids will be the UK would be best, before moving I was panicking I would get old on my own in the UK and only recently realised the girls may as well leave where we are now one day and by then there won't be much of the extended family left here! Why didn't think of that before? I was in the UK and thought life here with family around would have been easier and was jealous of UK colleagues who could see family over the weekend. I come here and miss my girls! A positive is that other parents at the schools are so forthcoming with help, it could have been so much worse!

I’d come back. Yes there will be struggles but clearly what you’ve done isn’t working, is making you and your girls sad, and putting far too much on your dear mother. Whether your Ex helps or not isn’t the main issue I think.

OP, I was in a similar situation 10 years ago. My Exh is a British citizen, who worked abroad at times but mainly based in the UK. I didn't want to move back to my own country but wasn't sure if staying here was the right decision either, pros and cons with either choice. In the end I decided that staying here would have been better for my two children, and financially for me too. I don't know how things would have panned out if I had left, but for sure my children would have lost contact with their dad, which in spite of ex h being an arse, I didn't want to happen.
I am reasonably happy now, kids are at uni, happy, their life is here. We don't have a crystal ball to guide us, you have to look at the realities but its your heart and guts which will make the decision. Good luck