WWYD? I am making so many mistakes and can't think straight!

[cato40]

I'd really value some perspective from people that are not as emotionally involved as I feel like I am taking one wrong decision after the other and don't know what to do!
Background: neither me or exH are british born and have no family in the UK. We ived in the UK for all pir adult lives and just divorced after his years long affair with an ex girlfriend who lives in the US. We have 2 DD 11 and 7. He said he would leave the UK at some point and we agreed for me to move to my home country (Europe) with the girls so that my mum and brother can help me with the girls and I can build a new life here. Our old family home is on the market and with the money I could buy a place mortgage free here, he would pay maintainace and with my new job here me and the gilrs could have a good life here.
I have been back to my home city a month now and seriously struggling. The cost of living is high but salaries here are low, jobs are not flexible and transports unreliable. It means that I can't look after the girls as I used to when I was in the UK and I totally depend on my family for school runs and after school. I miss my independence and time with the girls. I cannot even afford a car here as they cost a fortune compared to the UK! I am way more tired (leaving the house at 7.00 am coming back at 7pm earning 50% of my last UK salary). Schools here have been a disappointment, I did not anticipate before moving, and the girls miss home and their friends too, which i expected but still makes me sad and guilty. Our quality of life is no better of what it was in the UK. I decided to move as I was scared at the idea of raising the kids alone in the UK since the dad was planning to move abroad too. He has always paid maintainace so far. The positive here is the support and connection with my family, although my elderly mum is exhausted as she has to manage the girls every day whilst I go to work. Paid childcare is too expensive.

Now: we have been away amonth and EXH is begging for us to go back to the UK promising he'll do more to be with them and help. I wonder if it is a narcissistic thing where he needs the kids to feed his ego? Us moving here was his idea and since his affair he has not been very involved with the kids. He paid anything the girls needed but his GF always first (going on hiliday with her and missing a year 6 assembly of our eldest daughter). He's happy to take the house off the market and for me to live there with the girls and support until I find a new job.
What would you do?
I am tempted to go back but feel I didn't give my country a proper chance for us to fully settle, and moving back to the UK would upset my family (although they are struggling too with us, not used to dealing with school runs, kids being kids etc.), they have supported me through the breakup and would not see well me moving back. I think the UK is better for the girls, schools and opportunities, we are in a super touristy region and in future they'll have to move away or work in hospitality.
Going back would also mean that the only support would be the unreliable ex H that now promises to stay in the UK to raise the girls.
Please help!

I'd go back to the UK in a heartbeat. It doesn't sound great where you are.

This. I'd move back to the UK. You can make it work, you could live in a two bedroom house and make it home.

Just to add, I have known several families who have changed countries because the parents fancied a new experience /returning home/ a change / seeing the world etc.

It has never worked out well for the children eg depression, anxiety, failure to adapt to new school systems, very poor educational achievement etc.. Children need stability above all - their friends, stable schooling, housing, family.

Staying in Italy for say a year, to see if it pans out and then returning to the UK when it doesn't, (and you know it won't as you can't miraculously improve the educational system or get a better job with fewer hours) is the worse of all worlds.

You need to own your bad decisions and change them asap while you can, not compound them.

@cato40
I know Italy, lived here for nearly 30 years.

Families run Italy, even in the North. It's not set up for nuclear families, even 2 parents plus children are not the norm, it's parents plus children plus extended family.

The whole system is geared up to this, so if you or your family don't want this, it's going to be an uphill battle.

Presumably you know this but there's generally no food provided at schools post primary school so while people may talk of not needing childcare, it's not like the UK, remember that someone needs to feed your children lunch everyday.

I'd go back to the UK. Not least as the near old won't blame him for the move forever, especially if he stays in the UK.

While he feels guilty get his promises in writing via a solicitor or finalised through the divorce.

Move back to the UK as soon as possible. It's destiny talking with the house falling through. Your girls are going to move back to the UK anyway when they are old enough. You can visit your mum regularly. Your family feeling sad is not a reason to stay in Italy. Good luck. And try not to over think this. You will find work in the UK and there is universal credit if needed.

You could give it some more time but it does sound like neither you nor the dc are happy.
Take exh our of the picture as he's unreliable.
What do you want to do?
Your dm is elderly and struggling with your dc, you're out working/commuting for 12 hours.
If you move back, you've got housing for the time being and you could get benefits to tide you over whilst looking for a job.
You may even be entitled to UC if you find a lesser paid job.
Don't think about what exh or your dm wants just seriously think about what you want and what's best for your little family unit.
Re your dc, you've only a few more years before you won't need childcare, you could take a part time role, claim UC until the youngest is old enough to be left.
Good luck

I think I would stay where you are for a while at least. I moved with my parents to France when I was aged 10. It was very difficult as I imagine you are finding. I lost my friends and my stability and I couldn’t speak the language. I didn’t have any friends. However, after a year or so I was really settling in, made new friends and guess what- we moved back again. Very destabilising, I wish we could have stayed.

You are near your family and things will improve when you have your own house and everything settles. Your ex is not to be trusted. It will be hard to get a job back here. Just give it some time…

I wouldn't trust your ex-husband

Therefore, if you take that out......you'd be going back to the UK to nothing. Potentially no house, no job, uprooting the girls again....its just not worth it unless you DEFINITELY have a permanent place to live and a job

Is there a benefit system in Italy?

Could you work part time and claim benefits, which would help your mum and you and the girls?

Something else I've just considered....after reading pps ^^

It's possible that you could get your ex husband to (legally) agree to you living in the family home in the UK and not selling it until the youngest girl is 18.

My SIL organised this as part of her divorce financial settlement

Might that work for you ?

The job market isn't great at the moment but it does depend on your industry

Would your kids even get a place back at school?

I would try and get a job first and enquire about the school places in the UK. No point thinking about coming back without those sorted anyway. If you can't get a job, you might as well stay where you are.

Your ex sounds thoroughly fickle - no doubt when his circumstances change, he’ll change his mind again, and then what? Any plans you make shouldn’t take him into account. A month really isn’t long enough to have given your new life a chance - and if your children grow up bi-lingual, it will be an advantage for them later. Would you actually be able to get them into their old schools? Good schools tend to be oversubscribed, and places fill quickly. I would give it a year - it would be very unsettling for your children to be uprooted after so short a time away. It doesn’t sound as though you would be returning to comparable circumstances, and if you are dependent in the goodwill of your ex to stay in your former home, you could find yourself in difficult circumstances when he decides that he wants half of the money from the house after all.

It honestly sounds as if the UK would be the better option for you right now. The economic factors seem pretty convincing to me.

Surely there will be an issue with your daughters adapting to the Italian curriculum? The subjects will certainly be different and they will be learning in a different language. Using Italian for schooling is probably quite different to speaking it in a family or holiday context. Even the style of handwriting that is taught is likely to be different!

However, sometimes when I have had a big decision to make I do a scoring exercise. So for every factor (home, work, family etc) consider it separately and then give it a score out of five. Do that for each option and add it up. It sounds obvious but it can be quite revealing and also sorts out any muddle going on inside one’s head.

Just another suggestion...
You could agree with the girls that you will stay for one year and then move back to the UK. This will give you time to plan properly,to find work, a home etc. It reframes your time away, it is an opportunity for you to spend a year with your family, for your children to explore new country (they'll have lots of experiences to talk about when they get back to the UK). Rather than rushing and making a rash decision (which may cause more problems) take a pause. Acknowledge your children's feelings, let them know you think it was a bad decision to move. Create a plan, emphasise sticking together, being a team, working through problems. Tell them how proud you are of their resilience. What are the pros and cons of Italy? What did they like most about the UK? Reflect on this yourself, look for jobs and houses, explore possibilities. I would barely factor exH into the equation. In that time, you may settle and decide not to move back to the UK. It gives you a chance to think through options and puts a positive spin on your time away. I think that's what I would be doing in your situation.

I agree.

I also think you will get a job, op.

Speak again to your ex husband and re-assess his commitment to helping you. Tell him all your misgivings and get his reassurance.

However it's your life, you have to weigh up the pros and cons and nobody can make the decision for you.

Thank you all, I find your different points of view very helpful. As someone said the system here is not set up for nuclear families and you need the extended family to keep going. I am very close to Switzerland but the bigger city with the better jobs is still one h away, full time hours are 40+ a week and part time flexi working are rare. I am currently working in Milan and spend 4 h a day on the road. I can't move away from my extended family. If I get a permanent job in the UK and stay in the family home with time I should be able to buy something smaller as we have some equity in the house and regardless, I would not move unless EX signs papers to let us stay in the family home for the next few years. Good point re checking if we could get a place in the old schools, we were in an area with amazing schools!

@fleetheart Thank you for sharing your experience. I can see how if moving again after one year may not do the girls much good.
@plasticmack I knew that and have local mums helping with the school run, my mum is 74 and when I come home in the evening she's exhausted. We were talking how we both underestimated how hard work this would be. Part of me thinks that the system in the UK and schools are set up in a way that makes up for what extended families and neighbours do in Italy. I've had a professional job in the UK, earning £3k a month working 31 h a week a few months back (although the sector is not doing great at the moment), I am earning half of that in the current job and considering a caring or hospitality job closer to home to have more flexibility and less commute.

Feeling a bit sad because the last 4 posts I have commented on are single mothers beating themselves up because they are not perfect. When it's actually the dads who have upped and left. It's so hard for single mums.

I would go back to the UK. It’s the girls home and their dad surely will want some contact. That’s just what I would do, if you know it’s a mistake you can undo it at this stage.
you made the decision in a time of great chaos, you are doing your best, onwards and upwards now.
Good luck

I agree @Lentilweaver

If you weigh up the pros and cons of both, which one has less cons?
You're decision needs to be for you and kids, not family or DexH

I think you need to base your decision as if you have no input from your XH. You can't rely on him, so how would it work if he didn't do what he says he will do. Where would you live. Could you get a job. What would school, childcare, transport etc. be like in the type of area you would probably be living in. Then you need to compare that with the situation where you are living now - if you did not have support from your mother. If she becomes unwell she would not be able to provide childcare and you might even find yourself needing to provide care for her as well. You might well want to do that and it should be a consideration when making your decision.

Nobody can make your choice for you, but we can help you think about the things you need to consider.

On terms of transport are you allowed to buy a car in a cheaper country and drive it to Italy? I have no knowledge of the legalities of that but if you can that would solve one problem

There were a lot of good reasons for moving abroad but the situation doesn’t sound good. It’s very hard financially and your mum is exhausted helping and will only get older and more tired if you stay. How about sorting out the house sale asap and deciding when you have the money in your bank whether
to
move?

Tbh from what you've written I'd be veering towards moving back.

That said-if your ex reneges on his promises, what then?

You need to be able to manage in UK without him!

Everyone makes mistakes & nobody is perfect. We would all love to bring our children up in a world where everything is stable and nothing changes. The reality is this is highly unlikely. Please don't feel guilty if you decide to return to the UK. Children are more adaptable than we give them credit for & they would get used to it. The decision of course is entirely yours.