To be shocked that 97% of 12 years olds have smart phones?

[Rhayader]

My DCs school does not allow smartphones and most of the schools around here are the same. The kids all have Nokias (and often an AirTag or similar for tracking).

I can’t believe it’s 97%! Am I totally out of touch? She’s never even asked for a phone.

https://amp.theguardian.com/technology/2024/sep/23/children-who-dont-have-smartphones

Where I live I dont know a child past year 6 that doesn't have a phone . My ds is in year 5 and I'd guess at least 75% do and some have from year 2 onwards!

@summerdawn

Unfortunately for the reasons I posted earlier, that campaign group is a cult. I believe they have 35,000 parents signed up- totally insignificant in a context of millions of DC in the U.K.

The vast majority of parents recognise that smartphones are here to stay (like it or not) and their use needs to be managed rather than banned.

@LaughingPig I read your post above written around 9pm last night but did not know it referred to this specific movement. Could you explain in what way it is a cult?

I agree total numbers are small; however those on this thread who share the sentiment may want to look up their own school and could be surprised to find 10-20 people signed up - even close to 100 for some schools. This applies more to primary school parents as this ship is more likely to have sailed for those with children currently in secondary.

I do share your misgivings about Y9 as a cut off, because it’s still a vulnerable age but then holding out longer is even more untenable than this already feels.

I disagree about the TV analogy: a family TV in a shared living space does/did not pose the same risks, in my opinion.

@summerdawn

It is a cult of a very specific type of parent who want to take the lazy option of banning a tool that is an important and useful part of life for the vast majority. They are going to do enormous damage to their DC by denying them access to a communication device that virtually all of their peers will have on ideological grounds.

I agree there would be benefits in going back to 2004 and a world with no smartphones, but that is not going to happen. We therefore have to deal with the world as it is, by teaching and supporting DC to use smartphones safely.

Personally I think banning social media until 16 as this group want is a crazy idea. Giving that age group free access when they have been denied any previous experience would be a total disaster.

Of course family TVs are safer, but when my DC were teens (they are in their mid 20s now), most of their friends had TVs in bedrooms so the concern around content was the same as it is now for smartphones.

The kids may have Nokias for school but they definitely have smart phones waiting for them at home. It’s 2024, I’m surprised that you’re surprised.

The sooner we stop giving young kids smart phones the better, and the sooner we strop tracking them the better.

For the ones whose kids have a phone at 11/12, so do they have free access to everything? Google, Instagram, Fb, YouTube etc and downloading different apps?
I hate the thought of this for my Dd, but she’s only 6 at the moment

I'm not surprised at all. We were the meanest parents in the world as we only let dd2 had a phone once she was 11. Half way through year 6. Everyone in her class and year 5 already had a phone apparently.

While they don't need a phone for high school school it makes their lives 100% easier. Dd's use theirs for homework as its set on an app. It's used for bus tickets via an app, which they can also track the up to date bus time (they use the public bus). Some teachers also use kerboodle and other resources in class asking them to take out their phones. School rule is phones have to be in bags and switched off during the school day or they are removed until the end of the day. They also have WhatsApp for keeping in touch with friends/me.

Never before have I heard someone describe NOT giving a smart phone to a kid as ‘lazy’

You need to look up Jonathan Haidt or listen to his podcasts. These things are doing untold damage to kids. I’m really hoping that by the time my child gets to that age, that ‘dumb phones’ for under 16s are the norm. No kid will feel left out then. You really cannot police these things as much as you think and they’re so incredibly damaging in so many ways.

My age limits for this kind of thing went out the window during covid.

Whilst my older 2 had previously has to wait til much older to get a smartphone, when covid hit I had to balance my youngest mental health needs and maintain his ability to speak to his friends, so he did end up with a one of our old phones with a cheap sim

@LaughingPig thank you for explaining your point of view. I do think there is a lot of sense in what you say.

On a slight tangent I have taught in schools, both state and private, with open access to smartphones at breaks and at schools where they are fully banned (even evenings/weekends in the case of one boarding school), and I know I would rather send my children to a school without smartphones.

I have also noticed though that some Gen Zers can be more capable or sitting with each other and giving one another their full attention without turning to their phones every few seconds than those of us who are millennials or older, and have wondered if having grown up with these phones they have learned along the way to regulate usage better. This is anecdotal, though. I haven’t read “The Anxious Generation” for comparison.

I haven’t fully formed my opinion on all this yet but I do think it’s worth people who share the view of that smartphone free childhood movement, for better or worse, knowing that it exists. (Perhaps, in time, nuance will be added to the social media progression plan so it’s not 0 to 100).

@Errors

How do you imagine a bunch of 16 year olds gaining unlimited access to phones and social media, at the same time as having freedom elsewhere in their lives is going to work?

It would be a total disaster.

Someone will probably come along shortly to tell you that you can completely lock them down but I am skeptical. There was a poor guy posting on here the other day who thought he had his 12 year old son’s phone locked down but he was on a WhatsApp group that received some incredibly indecent images. Things you do not want a 12 year old to see (think along the lines of child porn)

To me, the very fact that they need locking down shows how addictive and dangerous they are in the first place. My child is around the same age as yours and I am really hoping the tide changes before he gets to that age and that smart phones stop being the norm for such young children.

All apps are approval only. So they send the request and it comes to my phone and I accept or decline the request.

Web pages are set with the age restrictions and you can ban key words and such as well.

means the parent has allowed the app in the first place. Once you allow the app itself that’s where the issues start with say WhatsApp. You cannot lock down WhatsApp so you just don’t allow it.

Do you think other kids at the school all have them and my DD has just not mentioned it?

Without a doubt.

I don’t think I suggested that did I?! You’re putting words in my mouth.
I would suggest something like giving a smart phone at 16 but keeping it locked down as much as possible until 18 if it’s possible. Slow exposure.

You wouldn’t start giving increasing amounts of alcohol to a teen so that they don’t go crazy when they’re legally allowed to drink at 18 would you?! There are loads of examples of things that kids cannot have access to until they’re mature enough to use them properly.

You can also explain in the years running up to them turning 16 just how bad smart phones are. Educate them on social media use etc before they start using it. It’s common sense!

I don’t get the argument of giving something harmful to a kid of 12 to avoid them suddenly having access at 16. It makes no sense.

@Oblomov24 I'm a primary school teacher, and have unfortunately had to deal with a lot of WhatsApp issues (mainly in Y6). The chats occur outside school, but parents get so worried they usually contact us. The problem stems from a small group of parents not checking their kids' phones, not restricting WiFi, no parental controls etc. As a result, some 10/11 year olds are sending each other messages at midnight, swearing, sending dodgy videos, using derogatory language about each other's mums etc...you get my drift. I don't understand why parents would give their child a phone, then never check it! It seems crazy to me. We aren't there yet with my eldest DD as she's only 6, but the day she gets a phone, she'll be told in no uncertain terms that it'll be getting checked regularly!

They aren’t going away, so as many parents of teens have said it’s about managing the use, time they have phones , talking to them about safety etc, making sure kids have alternatives and hobbies.
The internet exists, there are many m, many ways for children to be exposed to all sorts of stuff, good and bad, with or without phones.
Loathe them as I do sometimes.
We have a no phones rule on holiday for example. So if we’re away they hand over the phones, and we use a camera to take pics. Or borrow an adults phone.

I overheard a poor lad in a queue behind me chatting to his grandma the other day. I don’t think he was much older than ten.
She was asking about his sleep and if it had gotten better since he stopped using his smart phone at night. He said yes it had but he was still having to take melatonin. He went on to say that some mornings he wakes up to over 300 WhatsApps from his friends on a chat they all have and that his phone was pinging so much up until 3am that he had to put it in another room. It breaks my heart.

I agree with you but I am skeptical that even telling your kid they’ll be getting their messages checked regularly is going to work. They can just delete the ones they don’t want you to see.

I spend a LOT of time in the USA, have US family etc and I can tell you now that all the naice, MC kids had phones much earlier than mine ever did.
I’m according to US stats 42% of US kids have a smart phone by age 10 and 91% by 14…

In my experience younger kids don’t really think about or bother to, but a load of deleted messages in my kids phone would lead to a conversation … and if it’s a grp chat those things can spiral so they won’t delete everything…
We tell our children DO NOT write anything f in a message that you would be ashamed or embarrassed about if a parent or teacher read it.

Mine have my old phones - so yes they have smartphones. However, it was easier to give them my old handset rather than buy a whole new phone.

Now that the OP has explained that this is an ultra religious school chosen by parents with extremely religious beliefs I suspect that the rest of the parents think like she does so I don't suppose the children will have smartphones

It s not an environment I suspect most of us would want to bring up children up in but clearly there's a need from some sections of society