To believe in karma, even though it doesn’t always seem to work?

[DreamyPearlPeer]

I’ve always believed that what goes around comes around, but lately I’ve been questioning whether karma really exists. I see people who do terrible things and seem to get away with it, while others are good struggle endlessly. AIBU to still believe in karma, or is it just wishful thinking?

I understand the concept, and why it suits intelligent people these days to reframe karma as a more complicated and nuanced idea than "you'll pay some day, even in the next life". The same thing happens in god-based religions too, because simple folk tale concepts of magical justice, or vengeful gods, obviously don't wash for most educated people.

I grew up with a school chaplain who had all these interesting explanations for the biblical miracles—demonstrating that they weren't miracles at all, but interpretations of dramatic events distorted over time by storytelling. Ultimately, the point was to live a good life and be a good person—you didn't need to believe in magic to prove the existence of god.

Not believing in karma or a god doesn't give a person like me carte blanche to be a bastard, because that would be stupid. There's society, and relationships, and laws to consider—natural consequences. Humans are successful as a species because we have evolved into an extremely sophisticated cooperative societal structure, which requires a lot of rules to function. For most people, cooperation and following the rules does make for an easier life, whether you're doing it for karma, for god, or simply for the smooth running of society.

For a few people, however, breaking the rules pays off—sometimes big style—and often there are no consequences for them at all. That's life, unfortunately. Religious ideas about magical justice exist to discourage the societal rule-breakers, and your nuanced model of karma is just a complicated version of that.

@NoProblems

I found your comments most interesting, especially your last two sentences, "But you are right, there is a danger of people becoming resigned to their fate.
But that is due to not having a proper understanding of the religion they are following, which is Buddhism in your friend's case."

I used to be a practising Buddhist, but I was shocked at how many people fell foul of understanding properly the teachings on karma - and that applied to even some of those supposedly most "experienced" of practionners. I also witnessed how people were manipulated by misuse of the teachings.

Needless to say, I'm not a Buddhist anymore, and in fact do not follow any religion or religious doctrine. The teachings on karma only make sense if you believe in reincarnation; and to believe in reincarnation relies upon having great faith and quelling any questionning and analytical observations. If you want any evidence, there is none - I certainly cannot remember anything about my past lives, if indeed I ever had any!

So I now see karma as a belief system - if you believe it and it works for you, fine. Otherwise, just try to be an okay person in life and not behave like a dick.

@Nonentitynumpty

Yes, it is a matter of belief and a third party can't prove it to you.

But if it is indeed true, it will affect everyone, whether they believe in it or not.

The consequences will also be the same for both believers and non-believers.

Acquisition of Karma doesn't depend on whether one believes in God or not, it depends on one's behaviour/lifestyle.

Being an "an okay person in life" makes sense in many ways.

But what sort of behaviour/lifestyle is okay and doesn't result in bad Karma is the essential question to be considered, according to my understanding.

Yes, it is true that people are manipulated, either on purpose or because the preachers themselves don't have a proper understanding.

Although it is very difficult to find the right resources, before following any belief, one should do as much research as possible.

The more you fall into something without properly understanding the logic of it, the more disillusioned you will be, as it seems you have found out.

All around us, we see vast differences, unbelievable injustices, "innocent" and "good" people in terrible situations, "guilty" and "bad" persons in very comfortable situations getting away with all the bad things they do.

Whatever we are is a direct consequence of what we did in our previous lives.

And what we do in this life will have consequences in future lives.

Before I get misquoted again, if we are benefitting from good Karma, it does not mean we ignore the plight of others and write it off as their bad Karma.

Callous and arrogant behaviour towards those suffering creates bad Karma for ourselves to be suffered in future lives whereas kind and caring behaviour creates good Karma for ourselves.

For me, the joint concepts of Karma and Reincarnation are a logical explanation of how things work.

If we try to isolate Karma from Reincarnation, or with what happens after death, the logic disappears as we clearly see from all the injustices around us.

But everyone is free to have their own beliefs!

@Nonentitynumpty, I forgot to mention I don't have a clue about any of my past lives, but I still 100% believe in Reincarnation, based on what I have understood about the logic of the joint concepts of Karma and Reincarnation.

Belief needs logic more than proof, in my view.