To believe in karma, even though it doesn’t always seem to work?

[DreamyPearlPeer]

I’ve always believed that what goes around comes around, but lately I’ve been questioning whether karma really exists. I see people who do terrible things and seem to get away with it, while others are good struggle endlessly. AIBU to still believe in karma, or is it just wishful thinking?

True, but I am very interested in the topic and it is core to my existence!

But I will stop commenting now.

One thing for your information, God can be kept out of it.

The Jains and Buddhists believe in Karma but not in a Creator God.

The Hindus and Sikhs believe in Karma and in a Creator God.

Right, so next time I hear about somebody disabled and suffering, or being repeatedly raped, I could therefore think "Oh that's terrible, but maybe it's ok, maybe they were Hitler in a previous life"

That’s handy.

Similar to Christianity that explains all the complicated stuff with “it’s all part of God’s mysterious plan”.

It’s bullshit.

Most people that say they believe in it don’t even understand the concept.

Lord Buddha was a Hindu prince.
Lord Brahma created the universe.
Part of the trinity Lord Brahma, Lord Vishnu and Lord Shiva.
No such thing as Hinduism - it's called Santhan Dharm - all religions that are considered 'eastern' religions stem from this - Bud, Jain, Sikh and many more.

I won't be taking your information on.
God is very central to this but God is an Omni presence.

What's the concept according to you?
Unless you're a priest or practice in the religions that believe in karma you don't know.

My friend (who I mentioned yesterday) is obviously only speaking for herself and how she feels, but she's experienced awful abuse and trauma through her life.

She's said she believes she was bad in a previous life. Says she needs to believe that - as she can't accept there's no reason for her unfair suffering in this life (she's a good person who's been harmed by horrible people). She also has said she wants to believe in karma on the next life for those who've harmed her. Who am I to judge her for those beliefs.

@NoProblems Do you mind if I ask? I find this interesting especially as my friend speaks about karma every so often. She sometimes says she actively hopes for karma - in that she hopes the people who've harmed her terribly in this life suffer in the next. I admit I've occasionally agreed with her in hoping for that.

I wonder now, does that mean her and I are causing bad karma for ourselves in our next lives - by wishing for suffering on others (even although the people we wish it for are terrible people in this life)?

I hope I'm making sense. I'm only just thinking about the concept. I never thought much about what my friend says but your posts have been informative and sparked my interest.

Well, that is your belief and everyone is entitled to their own beliefs!

You don't have to believe it, but you have to accept the fact that, whatever their origins, Buddhists and Jains strongly believe in Karma but equally strongly don't believe in a Creator God.

I was just pointing that out to you in response to your comment.

The interesting thing is all the four Indian religions which believe in Karma also believe in Reincarnation.

The people who follow those religions don't stop believing in Karma despite the many injustices they see in their countries.

On the subject slightly but does anyone else remember on heart fm Trevor McDonald reading the weeks news to that Savage Garden song 😂😂nobody else remembers it but me

They all stem from one source so it stands to reason they all believe in karma and reincarnation.

I do believe in actions and consequences, but I can't square the idea of someone suffering in this life for something they can't remember.

And I don't feel that avoiding suffering in the future is the best motivation for doing something good.

I do believe that lots of people who have suffered in life go on to live wonderful lives and go on to bring hope and support to others in need.

So maybe some of the hardest times in life are what help us appreciate the good? And someone who is selfish or indifferent may not be equipped to really appreciate their good fortune?

It certainly is an interesting topic for many!

I can only explain from my understanding of Karma. Others will have different opinions.

To answer your question, yes, you and your friend are accumulating bad Karma for yourselves by wishing for suffering on others.

If there is any possibility or means of getting justice under the law, your friend can certainly follow that.

Her abusers might or might not get the full punishment they deserve here, but whatever 'debt' of their Karma remains will inevitably have to be repaid one day.

Your or your friend's wishes will not change that one bit.

Everyone enjoys or suffers the consequences of their own good and bad Karma. Others' wishes or actions will not affect those Karma.

Your friend say she believes she was bad in a previous life and seems to accept that her sufferings are a consequence of that.

I would agree with that, but one is usually bad and good, so she would have accumulated good Karma as well.

I hope the sufferings are now behind her and and the consequences of her good Karma will prevail.

Being a 'good' person is a good thing, but it all depends on what is considered 'good' in what society.

The important question to ask is what sort of behaviour and lifestyle creates bad Karma for oneself?

And then to avoid that sort of behaviour and lifestyle.

I won't say anything more on that, but you and your friend can try and find out more about the religions/philosophies that have had Karma and Reincarnation as fundamental concepts for a long time - Hinduism, Buddhism, Sikhism and Jainism.

These are my personal views in response to the question by Windchimesandsong.

Others will have different views and I have no problem with that.

Well, many researchers do believe them to be from two distinct sources - Shraman and Brahman.

So what about those who experience good times first and then fall on bad times?

Thank you @NoProblems I appreciate your informative reply.

Santhan Dharm came first and all the founders of the subsequent faiths were born into Santhan Dharm, they took a branch of the faith and developed that and tweaked it as the original faith wasn't quite for them.
You see this with Christianity and it's many branches but if you speak to the individuals they don't consider themselves as one. Same difference with the Eastern faiths.
I'm a Sikh by the way.

Shraman and Bhraman are not 2 distinct sources.
Shraman were part of Santhan Dharm they didn't like the way of the Bhrahmins.
So how can it be 2 distinct sources?!
They then started their own movement but still from Santhan Dharam.

Example, fasting is a sin in Sikhi.
However, we don't pretend we are from a distinct source and Santhan Dharm (Hindu) has nothing to do with us just because they fast. We still recognise Guru Nanak Dev Ji was born into a Hindu family. He didn't like aspects of it so took a certain belief system and developed it. Although, it was a very different shape by the time Guru Gobind Singh Ji committed it to the 11th and final Guru being our Holy Book. By then you could say it has nothing to do with Santhan Dharm / Hinduism.

I wish karma did exist, but sadly it doesn’t. I have met too many people who are bullies, mess up their lives and crap on other people and live the life of Riley.

Karma is supposed to come and get you in the next life, not this one.

(According to religions that believe in karma)

If you had read the thread, you'd realise the West doesn't understand the concept of karma, that's why you're disappointed.

Not necessarily, you could see it one lifetime.
The PP with the disability that was bullied, now her bully has a child with the same rare disability is a good example.

Disagree massively.

Karma?Well, if you treat people with respect and as you should, then in general you will be treated the same. I truly believe that. You invest in friends, family, help out then when YOU need help it’ll will be there.people will be there for you.
BUT Looking around expecting people who you think are shitty will have something shitty happen to them? not so much. or rather - maybe they ARE having a rough/bad time but it’s not obvious to you because that stuff is often private.
So that boss who’s a shithead, but seems to be homophobic and a but still top of the heap at work? Those people are damaged as SHIT. Kids hate them. Or the family hate them or they’re massively in debt or they’re alcoholics there’s always something.

So it doesn’t exist, as if you believe in reincarnation, when you are reincarnated you have no memory of previous life so don’t know you are being punished for.

Sikhism is around 500 years old and I think most of its history has been well documented. So you know exactly where you stand with Sikhism.

What became known as Hinduism, Jainism and Buddhism are more than 2,500 years old.

Their respective followers believe in what has been passed on, a lot of it having been lost, and there have been many splits as well.

Jainism is older than Buddhism and both are seen as protest movements against Brahmanism by many historians.

But there are also some notable historians who have concluded that the Shraman philosophy existed in parallel with Brahman philosophy and they have distinct origins.

According to them, Shraman philosophy was never part of Brahman philosophy.

From my limited knowledge, I don't think Karma is even mentioned in the original Hindu scriptures, but I might be wrong.

I am not trying to interfere with your beliefs, but just pointing out there are alternate views on this happenings of more than 2,500 years ago.

Today, all the four like to be regarded as distinct and there are also splits in all four of them.

And as far as I know, these four are the only ones which have had Karma and Reincarnation as core and inter connected concepts for hundreds of years.