Excluded from grandchildren's life

[GrandmDEA]

I'm going to try and keep this short but I have 3 sons, one of them moved abroad many years ago for work, it was meant to be short term but he fell in love with a girl 10 years his junior, married her 9 months later and they had a child a year after that. A couple of years ago this same country that they were living in and she was from ended up in a war, they moved to the UK with their 2 children immediately. They live in London, fairly central, they pay way below market rate in rent as someone he works with owns it but it is a tiny 2 bed and they have 2 children, one who has just turned 5 and the other just turned 3.
We have always had issues with them, we weren't invited to the wedding, in fact we didn't know they were married until after the wedding happened! We had never met her. She clearly has no respect for our family but we try to keep the peace.
This year we have seen our grandchildren 2 times, we only live an hour away but they don't let us visit, if we show up uninvited on the weekend, they are always busy. If we ask to go up to see them it is always "no the house is too small for guests". My sons is meant to bring them to see us once a month but most times he ends up coming alone with some excuse. We haven't seen his wife since Christmas!
Our son was meant to be bringing them to see us tomorrow, we have spent £100s on birthday gifts for them as they both had birthdays at the very end of August. Today he has messaged saying sorry we can't come the girls will be too tired after a week at school/nursery, we will see you during half term! This happens every time.
We have had some big fall outs over decisions they make such as his wife continues to take their tiny children to a war torn country to visit her family, putting them through 24 hours of travel to get there and back! My son never goes with her and I don't think he actually agrees with her but lets her do it anyway. It stresses me out when she takes them to there, I worry for their safety so I have voiced that I don't agree with it. We obviously also got off on the wrong foot with the lack of wedding invite to anyone in our family. We only mention things that concern us out of care but it is always taken as an insult.

AIBU to be really hurt they keep excluding us? The grandchildren have spent several weeks this year with their maternal family and they all live in a war torn country, but barely 2 half days with us who live much closer!

If there has been no fallout then I do think you son needs to man up and stand up to his wife.

This issue is very clearly between OP and her son. Sons have autonomy over their own decision-making and are in possession of minds and wits of their own. There is no need to 'stand up' to his wife. It's her decision to take her family to visit her own relatives. It would be for him to decide whether to do the same for his.

It could well be the case that the son himself has taken umbridge at the rather insulting assumptions his mother has made about his wife. Rather than leaping to the conclusion that a devious, manipulative woman is somehow 'keeping him away' from his family of origin against his will, it would be fair to assume that this is his own response.

Interesting how the default assumption is always that a woman must be to blame.

Actually I think you can get rights to gc as a gp now - but it has to be in a situation where you've basically brought them up single handed for an extended period, then they go back to parents.

This is a very sad story and I feel really sorry for you OP. However, having said this I agree with the narrative in terms of the majority of the responses posted, unfortunately. It sounds like the situation is of your own making and it is even sadder you cannot see this.

My advice, if you want a relationship with your grandchildren, which you clearly do, there is a lot of humble pie to be eaten.

It sounds like money is not too much of an issue so I would speak to your son and daughter-in-law. Arrange a time you can travel to see them and book in to a hotel close by. I would then spend time taking with your son and daughter-in-law together, tell them you realise you have been wrong and judgemental in the past but you want to move forward having a relationship with them all.

Sometimes you have to leave past hurts in the past for the sake of the now and the future.

As long as you get the outcome you want, which is better relationships and harmony, it doesn't matter what you have to do and say to get it. You are going to have to suck it up and you are going to have to change, only you know if you can do so but I am sending lots of positive energy and the sincere hope you can.

I don’t think I op is likely to have any extraordinary rights: I’m not sure she has really even met them much from the sound of it

That's what I meant. There are some rights but they don't apply in this situation

You say "Of course they are" - you are saying that Ukraine is agreeing to the loss of life of Ukrainians for the benefit of "the west"? Could you explain this a bit more?
Weltpolitik/Realpolitik could be said to apply to "west" ideology I guess, but I am not sure how it applies to Ukraine's stance?

Aww op gm here, feel your sadness, your son for some reason decided not to involve his family at his wedding that being two brothers and there families, so this is a problem your son had with family, why you may never get to know but then how can you make things better if you don't know, you haven't been able to build relationships with DIL due to this decision he made, how are your other sons with him?,
Can you start to build a bridge with him first, no questions just simple, how are you, doing anything nice at weekend, see how that goes, build a rode with him and in time the dil, basically what am trying to say is, if he could of said to you all, why your not invited to wedding let people talk and clear the air I don't know but surely better to allow you and other sons to make changes in how you all treat and respect each other's wishes, good luck in the future,

Parents will generally do what is best for the children, if they think that someone is going to cause emotional or mental health problems for a child because of their behaviour, they will not allow contact. This is normal. If grandparents behave appallingly, parents may well cut off contact. When adult children do not want contact with their parent there are usually good reasons why. Though it is possible that the adult child has been manipulated.

I am not saying that this applies to your situation or the OP's situation, but generally speaking it is children who have rights in law, and aside from that parents will want to protect their children from harm. In your situation it does sound very sad - but have you ever tried to talk to your mother as to why she made that decision? It sounds as though the relationship between your mother and your grandmother was not good and it might be helpful for you to find out why? I couldn't say simply from your post, but it may be that your mother was making decisions which harmed you, or she was making decisions to prevent harm being caused to you?

Loss of life of Ukrainians is an inevitable result of being at war. Similarly, the west didn’t create this situation but of course they’ll be pragmatic and engage in a way that best suits their interests. Ukraine is very aware that it is in the interests of the west to support them - and this has been something Zelensky has stressed when drumming up support - rather than the west is supporting them as a matter of moral principle. Do they like it? No, but again they will use as they can to further their own interests (in this case, funding and military support).

Westward expansion of Russia is not in the interests of the west, but nor is direct confrontation with Russia (see also the proxy ‘hot’ wars during the Cold War). An economically weakened and tired and depleted Russian military is in the interests of the west, as is civil unrest in Russia.

The principles apply to all politics.

I disagree. Adult children have many reasons, some very valid, to distance themselves from their parents.

I also dislike it when GM/GF (it is mostly the women) who feel entitled to a relationship with grandkids when it is not warranted due to the frgile relationship with their adult child.

MANY of these women are interfering, focus too much on the GK, the lives of their adult children instead of their own.

I have my child really late-- mid/late 40's. I am not to far from 60, my kid is still little and have friends in their 60s whose children are in their 30's and they have kids. These women cannot talk about anything else, almost to the point of obsession which is uhealthy. It is like they never let their kids grow up (emotionally at least) at a healthy distance. I could not IMAGINE having a parent like that!!!!! I would do everything in my power to keep them away as it is so interfering.

My dad never, not once, asked me when I was going to have a family. And I asked him about that after I had my kid. He said it was none of his business, if I had a kid, great, and if I did not, great. And he for the most part is pretty respectful of my parenting (does not say anything) and is not overly encroached on my family's space.

I feel badly for the grown kids of some of the women in my circle. I could not manage the interfering, constant advice.... and I know not all do that. However it seems A LOT of women in particular do when there are GK.

Becoming a grandparent does not give you the right to interfere. And if your grown children are pushing you away, there is aq valid reason for doing so.

Your son loves and protects his wife. His wife sees her country as safe enough to travel to and it is obviously worth the risk for her to be with her own family over yours. Your own family sounds like a war torn battle ground. You are the war lord. They clearly feel judged and do not want your disapproval and conditions and worry.

So what you do is this: write them both a text saying "Hey we would love to see you all! How about you come for an overnight stay this month? We will take care of the meals and everything else. Do the kids enjoy petting zoos?"

Ask her how her family is and keep your mouth shut otherwise

Also back to add: YOUR SON was the one who got married and didn't invite you. He clearly has an issue with you as well or you aren't important enough to invite... :/ why would she be blamed for a lack of respect. This falls on HIS shoulders. He is YOUR son.

When I said moved in, I should have said it was for the duration of our holiday. Slleping in our bed , going through our dirty clothes basket.She moved out when we returned. My husband had given her a key when we bought the house. 😡 Basically her children were afraid of offending her. If I said I didn't like this they just shrugged but never tackled her about anything. I could go on.

Wow you are getting some seriously mean responses on this forum.
You are clearly hurt, upset and scared about the whole situation. I am so sorry that you are struggling with this.
I think it’s really hard for anyone who doesnt have access to everyone’s perspective on the situation to judge who is being unreasonable and who isn’t.
I think you feel the way you feel and people’s feelings are always important. Probably trying to find a way to understand what is going and why you are not getting to see your grandchildren is a good way to move forward.
i wonder how much a cultural divide might be exacerbating divisions between you and your son’s wife - honestly it could have everything to do with you and it could have nothing to do with you. She could be totally selfish and unfeeling and she could be deeply alienated and rejected or something else entirely.
Maybe starting with - I am feeling hurt and it’s understandable that I do. I wonder if she is too … let’s find out…?
I wish you and your family every good thing and hope you find a way through it. Big hugs.

From reading your replies and original post, the first act of distancing was done by your son when he chose to get married without telling you. You say he did this because he was worried about your judgement of his bride.

There has clearly been a rift between you, before his marriage that still exists. Your grandchildren visit their mother’s relatives because their mother is close emotionally with her relatives. You see little of your grandchildren because it’s your sons choice.

You probably won’t like the answer. All you can do is stop expressing judgement or giving advice to your son (or his wife). Stop showing up unannounced. Try to have a better relationship with your son by respecting him, showing an interest in his life & giving praise. You could work through these things with the therapist on your own. Once you’ve done work to change yourself, you could then have a brief conversation with him and express your regret that you aren’t closer and and let him know you accept things you’ve done in the past have caused this. It will take time to improve the relationship. Buying gifts and using guilt won’t do it good luck

I think the OP is getting a bit of a hard time here. Most mums of 30 year olds would be a bit concerned if they married someone who was 20. Even more concerned if they are from a different culture. And being concerned about your grandchildren going to Ukraine in the present climate is entirely rational!

However it sounds like it's your relationship with your son that has broken down here OP. I would concentrate on trying to rebuild that and be as accepting of his wife as you can. It must be very hard for her living over here, away from her friends and family, especially at such a young age - she must only be mid 20's now? Maybe your other son can shed some light on the situation?

I’m confused, why would most mums be “Even more concerned if they are from a different culture”?

Maybe I’m on my own here but it wouldn’t cross my mind to be concerned about my child marrying someone from another culture.

"We have always had issues with them, we weren't invited to the wedding, in fact we didn't know they were married until after the wedding happened! We had never met her."

And presumably those "issues" were you voicing your concerns about her motivation for wanting to marry him? Well, is it any wonder then that you weren't invited to the wedding? You made this comment about her without even having met her!
I'm afraid your DS has made a choice to stand by his wife and have minimal contact with you. I'm afraid you're going to have to live with his choice.

I don’t think OP is coming back because this thread didn’t go in her favor. I know it is hard to process that you are the most wrong in a hurtful situation.

I’ve seen recommendations for a process to reunite with relatives you’ve distanced yourself and your nuclear family from. OP, or anyone in a similar situation, should use this same process to try and rebuild the relationship with her son and his family.

First, work on the relationship with your own child. Learn to treat them as a peer. Don’t give unsolicited advice or attempt to parent them in any way. Remember that they are an adult with their own family and capable of making their own decisions.

After you have mended the relationship with your child, ask your child if you can then work on building a relationship with their spouse. Remember that this is the person your child has chosen to build a life and family with. You may not agree with this decision, but it wasn’t yours to make. Treat their spouse well. Think of them as someone who makes your child happy. Allow them to take the lead in how close your relationship is. Again, don’t give unsolicited advice or try to act as a parent. Try to find a common interest with them.

Finally, once a respectful relationship is established with both parents, then try to have a grandparent relationship with the children. Don’t give advice or parent them. Follow their parents’ lead.

In order for this to work long term, you can’t rush or skip steps. It can take months to years to complete the process, depending on your willingness to change your behaviors and the level of trust your child feels towards you. If having a relationship with your grandchildren is important to you, you will be willing to do this. If having everything your way and on your timeline is more important, then you will need to learn to accept that you may never have a good relationship with them.

It is interesting that of all the comments you choose to reply to it was the “ not a 24 hour journey”.
You have said NOTHING kind about your daughter in law , she is to you, your son’s wife . You have blamed her for the poor relationship you have with your son . With that attitude what did you really expect ? If you treated her like that wouldn’t she assume you would treat her children like that ?
With her own parents in a war torn country you had a golden opportunity to reach out and offer real support to her , your son and the children.
The fact is grown up children do not shut their wonderful, loving parents out of their lives . If you really want a relationship with your son and his family you will have to be the parent, step up and apologise for the way you have behaved .
Your son will always be your son but first and foremost he is a husband and a father , and I say that to you as the mother of two Ds .

The lack of clarity or insight on Op's part is staggering.

The judgment literally oozes out of the first post.

I wouldn't want to see her either.

Absolutely this, excellent post.
All those posters assuming this, assuming that, and many not aware perhaps of accounts of adult children feeling very deprived of gp relationships throughout their childhood and early adulthood with no understanding of why and huge resentment of their own parents when sonetimes surorising truths are discovered. Try to nip it the bud now, OP, in the many practical ways suggested. There are also many posts on mn from parents, usually mums, feeling so hurt and 'disrespected' if partners' parents appear to be ignoring their gc's

He was absolutely 100% correct wasn't he?

Only racist/xenophobic parents would be concerned with different culture. Especially in this case.
She is white Christian from a european country! Not a veiled Muslim woman from Saudi Arabia or a member of a remote Amazonian tribe, to expect some massive cultural clash

What about older children? At what age do you think they can decide?