Excluded from grandchildren's life

[GrandmDEA]

I'm going to try and keep this short but I have 3 sons, one of them moved abroad many years ago for work, it was meant to be short term but he fell in love with a girl 10 years his junior, married her 9 months later and they had a child a year after that. A couple of years ago this same country that they were living in and she was from ended up in a war, they moved to the UK with their 2 children immediately. They live in London, fairly central, they pay way below market rate in rent as someone he works with owns it but it is a tiny 2 bed and they have 2 children, one who has just turned 5 and the other just turned 3.
We have always had issues with them, we weren't invited to the wedding, in fact we didn't know they were married until after the wedding happened! We had never met her. She clearly has no respect for our family but we try to keep the peace.
This year we have seen our grandchildren 2 times, we only live an hour away but they don't let us visit, if we show up uninvited on the weekend, they are always busy. If we ask to go up to see them it is always "no the house is too small for guests". My sons is meant to bring them to see us once a month but most times he ends up coming alone with some excuse. We haven't seen his wife since Christmas!
Our son was meant to be bringing them to see us tomorrow, we have spent £100s on birthday gifts for them as they both had birthdays at the very end of August. Today he has messaged saying sorry we can't come the girls will be too tired after a week at school/nursery, we will see you during half term! This happens every time.
We have had some big fall outs over decisions they make such as his wife continues to take their tiny children to a war torn country to visit her family, putting them through 24 hours of travel to get there and back! My son never goes with her and I don't think he actually agrees with her but lets her do it anyway. It stresses me out when she takes them to there, I worry for their safety so I have voiced that I don't agree with it. We obviously also got off on the wrong foot with the lack of wedding invite to anyone in our family. We only mention things that concern us out of care but it is always taken as an insult.

AIBU to be really hurt they keep excluding us? The grandchildren have spent several weeks this year with their maternal family and they all live in a war torn country, but barely 2 half days with us who live much closer!

If you believe the sun shines out your son’s bum and he can do no wrong.

The valid concern would be why a 29/30 year old would be interested in a 19/20 yo.

And yet you didn't question why your grown, 30 year old son was dating a twenty year old? If anyone had dubious motives it wasn't her..

Clearly they feel judged, you weren't supportive of their relationship and that has caused problems. Would you go out of your way to visit someone who doesn't like your wife? Who doesn't like you? Who disagrees with your life and parenting choices? Of course she wants to see her family, wouldn't you? Of course she is less keen on seeing someone who is not supportive, who jumped to conclusions about you before they even met you and who continue to criticise your decisions. How would you have dealt with someone trying to tell you how to raise your kid's when they were young?

The truth is your son and his wife are adults and have different ways of doing things than you. I'm sure you mean well but you're overstepping your role as grandparent and mother of your adult, married son. It's easy to blame it all on your DIL, but even if you're right and she's a wrong un, your attitude towards her won't help you see more of your son and grandchildren.

It cuts both ways. They are both valid concerns. No matter what your perspective is, having concerns about the nature of the relationship and the haste of the nuptials, is not unreasonable.

Are you absolutely certain your other sons weren't invited to the wedding? Maybe they just couldn't face the inevitable fallout if you found out they'd attended, when you'd made yourself so unwelcome.

The OP said that she sees both of her other sons most days. It would be hard to try to pull the wool over her eyes about them attending their brother's wedding, especially as she minds their children!

I know. I meant that they were probably unlikely to accept an invitation if it was forthcoming, because of the OP's attitude.

I suspect she is controlling and sulks if she doesn't get her way and your son goes along with it to keep the peace. This is an impossible situation for you. I have seen it with members of my family. People can say "oh you did this, that" but this takes no account of controlling behaviour. I'm so sorry you are experiencing this. Does your son see his siblings at all?

‘You suspect’? Based on what? Your belief that men lack agency and that, if not controlled by their mothers, must be controlled by their wives? So many posters ready to infantilize this man as if he hasn’t been keeping his mother and family at arms length for years before he even met his wife.

They’re not interested in subjecting themselves to someone that wants to argue about their decisions. It’s really very simple. If OP insists on voicing her unwanted opinions they’ll end up even more estranged than they already her. She can either suck it up and respect the fact that her approval of their choices isn’t necessary, or she can carry on as she is and not see and/or speak to them at all. Up to her.

Doubt it.

son and DIL are right to stay away.

and you’re just projecting

I’m proud of your son, OP. You sound like a nightmare parent, mainly as you can’t see your own faults.

He thinks you’re racist/xenophobic due to your pointed comments. It strikes me that you think she is beneath your family.

You think she poisoned him against you, without realising your son withdrew contact with you long before that. It’s not her that “clearly has no respect for family” - your son has obviously indicated he wants less contact with you. If anything, she comes across like she values family considering how often she visits hers.

What’s relevant here is how your son grew up and how he really feels about you, because your own posts indicate he feels you and the rest of your side of the family are judgemental. Yet you seem to be pinning it all on the woman. It’s like you can’t possibly consider that your son is the one that doesn’t want much to do with you, and that stems from your actions. He didn’t invite you to his wedding. He didn’t even tell you he was getting married. He didn’t want you there. He didn’t see you as someone worth sharing his happiness with. That speaks volumes.

The fact you haven’t realised that and have proceeded to have big fall outs with him over his decisions and show up uninvited is beyond comprehension. He comes across like he’s protecting his kids from you.

I all honesty, it sounds like you have form for overstepping your sons boundaries in giving your opinions even not wanted. Maybe try talking to him when they're away and see if you can straighten things out and lead on a better footing

I'm sure the children see the trip on the train as an adventure.

Your comment of "not fair in the children at all" is probably one of the many reasons why they make little effort to see you.

Stop judging.

I know your intentions are well meant but they come across very badly.

you clearly disliked (and dislike) her, don't approve of the relationship. You made your bed! I wonder what DS and DIL would have to say about it.

you posts are just dripping with judgement. I wouldn't want you hugely involved in my life in that case too.

The fact that your son didn't invite his family to the wedding speaks volumes. The issues were already there before his wife came along. There's alot to address here but start with honest soul searching.

Dil gets the blame for a man who already knew his family wouldn’t approve of her before they had even met her. They are low contact but it’s her fault??? What for merely existing? Since the son already knew they wouldn’t approve (spoiler they did not approve) so he didn’t invite them to his own wedding.

Never the mils fault never the son’s fault. Always the dils fault in the nightmare mil 101 book.

The dil you’ve barely ever met that you judged without meeting too.

As soon as all is well in Ukraine you know they will move back right 😅 hell loads of families chose not to leave at all.

I don't think you understand that you are being offensive and that saying offensive things is not just cancelled out and forgiven or forgotten because of an apology. You seem oblivious to the harm that you've done and that you're facing the expected consequences of your actions. You're also defiant on here and seem impervious to feedback.

Have a feeling the OP won’t be back

Do you think people have read a story somehwere and then put it out there? For fun?

Well, I do believe that some men just go along with what their wives want because I have seen it. My own brother for example. The OP could be describing my sister in law.

Thing is, if the wife doesn't want to see the OP, that's one thing. But OP doesn't see her son much either.

My daughter was subject to coercive control by her ex boyfriend and it is a real thing. I am surprised you seem to think it is not.

As in, this isn’t real, it’s something the OP wrote here to goad people? Possible, but it’s also possible that it’s real, some people really are like that and don’t see how they could be wrong

It is possible, of course. I lived through it. My ex started off trying (and succeeded, in some cases) to turn me against others in my life to isolate me, amongst other horrible things he did to me, for example.
what we have here, tho, is an OP who’s clearly overbearing and who cast doubt on the integrity of her son’s wife in a very serious way, including that she couldn’t possibly be into her son unless she wanted money and a UK visa, which also says something about what she thinks of her own son (and is not afraid to say).

based on what we’ve read here, which one is more likely? That her own son doesn’t want a close relationship or that the DIL is forcing this distance through coercive control?

It’s definitely a thing and in fact I have seen plenty of posts on here where ops complain about their mil and people respond “you have a DH problem” to the effect that he ought to be sorting the mil out. So the dynamic of a DH actively getting involved / changing his actions because of the dil/mil dynamic is not unheard of at all - and in fact positively advocated on here at times.

We have had some big fall outs over decisions they make

This kind of says it all for me.

It's not your place to have 'big fall outs' over their decisions for their family and dc. It's not a two way argument where you get equal say. You don't get ANY say but you seem to feel differently.

Until you realise this and back off, your relationship is unlikely to improve imo.